Are You Putting Print to Work? | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

SUMMARY: In this episode, Kevin Connor and Matt Zaun talk about how storytelling can be woven into print material and how you can get print to work for you.

KEVIN CONNOR: Kevin is a partner at Modern SBC.

Some of the projects that Modern SBC routinely works on:

- Copywriting and content creation
- Logo and corporate identity creation
- Tradeshow/exhibits/virtual tradeshow exhibits
- Branded Promotional Products/Corporate Apparel
- Website creation/interactive experiences and associated launch activities
- Corporate Communications (online and offline sales literature, direct mail, newsletters, packaging, print management/distribution, sales kits, etc.)

For more info, check out Kevin and Modern SBC here:
Kevin Connor LinkedIn
Modern SBC

MATT ZAUN: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE. 

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

 

Matt Zaun 

Kevin, welcome to the stories of traction podcast.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Thanks for having me here, Matt.

 

Matt Zaun

I appreciate your time. Thank you. I know you're incredibly busy. So I appreciate you spending time with us today.

And I want to dive right in. So I want to talk about the power of print storytelling. So on your website, you emphasize

is that paper can communicate a brand's personality at a glance. Can you talk about how storytelling can be woven into print materials like brochures or sales collateral to create a memorable brand experience?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Great, great question. Look, all busy, so we're here for a reason. Let's get some value out of it. I think one of the biggest parts of that is that many of us were raised with storybooks as kids.

So the idea of story in a printed book is not uncommon to many people. Whether you've got a hero or a villain or a story or an agenda, call it what you will, but there's an narrative arc to the story.

And if you're able to bend that to suit your knees, it can help people digest what you're saying and try to put you in position.

You may get a lot of affiliates that way, and I'm affiliated being that people start, I'm sorry, Affinity is probably the better word.

Affinity where people feel for you and they want to understand they want to hear more. Look, none of us are indifferent to the world.

it's out there from when it would be a social storytelling or people exhibit street shows and I would just expect if you're going to walk up and talk to talk to somebody they're going to share with you the best of what they've got so sometimes the story is a better way to weave it in and maybe the trials and tribulation that people have gone through to get where they are you know failure is not necessarily the opposite of success it's sometimes just kind of a partner along for the right or that's been my story I'll say it that way so you know you you just said something that I've never processed before and I'm I'm interested to talk through it with you so you'd mentioned storybook I'm envisioning children so I'd mentioned to you prior to hopping on this podcast recording I have three young kids myself as I'm sure you can imagine very rambunctious butch right so the only time that they will be sitting still giving me their undivided attention is when I'm reading a book to them so I wonder if there's this nostalgic element to actually

 

Matt Zaun 

they having something in your hand when it comes to going through a story. So there's a lot of Hollywood movies that it do exceptionally well when they add that nostalgic element.

So they pull on something from the past. Could it possibly be that when you give a workbook out from a work type capacity and people are going through that, is there an element of nostalgic belonging, so to speak, because a lot of our positive memories come from going through storybooks, like you mentioned.

wonder if there's that element of almost like an intimacy almost where you're touching and feeling.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

It's a tangible thing. are your thoughts on that? It's a great insight on you. I mean, think about what we came from.

We come from an oral tradition, right? Before print was invented or widespread use that people told stories, right? That the Bible or a cave wall or just cultural traditions that were handed down.

Many times it came by early. It'd be interesting to think about your kids in front of that storybook without you.

presenting it though. Would they sit there if they had to read it themselves, right? I don't know, I don't know if mine would, but it was nice to have both, right?

You're reading it to them, sometimes you've read it for the 68th time, you're driving yourself nuts, but the kids like it, they like that rhythm, they like that predictability, they like the arc of the story, somebody's gone from maybe trouble and they come out in the end as a superhero.

So I think there's definitely a link to that to what we grew up with, us as kids, us as parents, and probably the same way for our kids.

There's a lot of stories, people who can give you facts all the time, sometimes stories help illustrate a point.

So it's nice to make a map for sure.

 

Matt Zaun 

thanks for sharing. I appreciate that. So let's let's dive into the emotional impact regarding print. So you mentioned packaging is often a customer's first tangible experience with a brand.

So how can storytelling be integrated into packaging design to enhance the customer's emotional connection with a brand?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

I think I'll share a story myself, because I've had three children as well, so one of the toughest times I had met was going to the biggest lab laboratory that any of us as parents have, the grocery store, right?

Typically, you've had 45 to 60,000 different SKUs in there, so there's lots of different voices calling for attention. And the biggest challenging aisle that I had was the serial aisle.

Now, I'm not a small guy. I hate a lot of cereals a kid, right? So I have my four-year-old daughter, I specifically remember this going down in the aisle, in the serial aisle, and I'm saying, Jess, which one do you want to pick, right?

And she said, well, dad, we're going to buy tricks. I was like, I'm thinking myself. I never eat tricks.

I'm like, how wasn't it huge tricks now? was for us, the flakes guy, right? Jess, what are you going to buy tricks?

And she looked at me she said, that tricks are for kids, right? You know the drill. like, we've all gone through it.

And it was that time, of course, I'm in the business, and I'm just like, man, that is the emotional impact that hits a four-year-old.

Maybe if get a four-year-old locked in, I could be your customer for life. I think my father ate frosted flakes every day of his life and he died.

It's 72. Like I just never saw me eat eggs or pancakes. So that connection is the taste and I'm not sure it was turning the tiger, but still, you know, we knew what dad like for breakfast.

So I think it can start very early and the emotional impact can be varied. I suspect there may have been some kids that maybe had bad serial experiences, but that was mine.

 

Matt Zaun 

Sure. Well, you bring up a really good point because when you walk down the cereal aisle, there's so many options.

It's what really brings that emotional connection into play to pull that off the shell.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

For sure. I'm not going to remember the name. I'm not sure it was tricks or maybe sugar snacks, but then the packaging design.

So think about the placement on there. There's usually three to four shelves on a supermarket, right? And they realize where their placement was.

So they adjusted the eyes of the character to look down like a 16th of an inch. And you can imagine why, right?

Because they're not talking to the adults. talking to the kids in the baskets. The emotional impact. So there's different levels of how it can affect us.

 

Matt Zaun 

I never heard that before. Wow, that's wild. To actually almost be giving the child eye contact.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

You know what? I still go to, when I go to supermarket, sounds kind of... I don't want to say I'm a creep-filled guy, but I watch families interact with brands.

what makes them choose this stuff, watching liquid versus something else? It's going to watch people shop sometimes.

 

Matt Zaun 

have a new appreciation for a supermarket and what you can learn from them. Wow, it's almost like positioning and display and merchandising.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Yes, that was one of my early jobs, actually, working in position for marketing, a market research company. And the end caps of supermarkets are not given away cheaply, but at that way.

a lot of people on the turns that get bigger exposure, so...

 

Matt Zaun 

Wow. So let's shift gears and talk about... Almost... Well, sometimes my wife and I call it Christmas every day, a package coming to our house.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Right. Yes.

 

Matt Zaun 

of going to the store, we walk out onto our porch. and we pull in a package. And what's interesting to me is the companies that go out of their way for the first time customer when it comes to opening that package.

So sometimes you open the package and they'll be like bubble wrap in there and that's pretty much it. And sometimes you open the package and there'll be a handwritten note and there'll be a really good brochure with story infused.

So can you talk about the importance of when the first time customer when it comes to delivery and when it comes to making that emotional connection right out of the game?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Good for you and seeing it. I hadn't heard it put that way, but all of us know the sound of an Amazon truck backing up into our driveway, right?

And you kind of say, wow, you put it, it's like to fit extra and you're getting some FedEx or UPS next day or you come in like, wow, it's for me.

what could it be? It's that thing I ordered, right? could be something just kind of like bland or something for the company.

Although the feeling is the excitement and you nailed it, I think that that Christmas morning. feeling. So is it possible to have that handwritten note scalable, right?

It'd be nice to get a handwritten note from Jeff Bezos every time that truck backs up, but chances of rex on it's not going to happen, right?

However, think about the companies that aren't able to do a little bit more personalization, maybe a Nazi company that you might have a couple interactions with, they don't have, you know, millions of packages a day, but they might be able to give a quick note on what does that say to you, right?

It gives a little bit more personalization. So I think many companies are trying to balance a personalization and that feeling what it feels like to buy from somebody they really like versus how do I do this in scale?

Now, without this pre-printing a note, I mean, you can put the words down. I mean, the same thing as somebody that's put a pen to paper.

Not sure. I'm not sure. I haven't figured it out yet either. But to that end, you asked a question before, right?

What does the print do that? So print is tactical. I'm sorry, it's tactical, right? It's our ability to feel it.

We touch it and we can, whether that means a lot. With everybody, I've got three kids in the 30s, not as much anymore.

I'm noticing a difference in how they absorb and consume, not only information, but their transaction, right? And do they have relationships with certain people that they really value that they're going to go back to?

I'm going to go back to Matt every time, right? Even those other options, they are just like dealing with Matt.

Sure. That's something all of us have to work on.

 

Matt Zaun 

We're constantly publishing that sort of thing. For sure, it's a really good point. Yeah, and as you know, there are companies out there that they have machines that it's real ink.

They really duplicate your handwriting for you.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

So I guess there would be a way to scale and mass produce it if one was one for sure.

If somebody could duplicate my handwriting, people in my office would be very impressed. me, it's a, any say I should have been a doctor.

That's what I've been told. So there you go.

 

Matt Zaun 

I'll shoot you a link or a company that will will duplicate. If that's what you want. Let's talk about capital.

Logs because I think there's really important and and on your site you talk about this as well So catalogs continue to be a beloved print medium even in a digital age What are some strategies for telling a compelling brand story through catalogs to keep them relevant and engaging for customers?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Great question and my experience many catalogs Many catalogs Work to give you that narrative to lay out time and place and pictures and try to imagine yourself If we're selling pool furniture imagine yourself at this house It might not be your house, but imagine this pool imagine feeling what it would be like that friends over by the fire pit No, I'm sitting on these chairs, right?

You get to paint some of that picture. I'm not While it's possible to use similar pictures online I think it might be a different feeling if you're sitting in front of your computer screen versus sitting in your couch Imagining that you're looking at your baby your window onto your porch and saying I can kind of see that you could put your computer screen there I think it's a different feel But I'm an older guy

So, I might not have the same feeling as the younger generation would, but that's kind of a fun for me.

able to paint that picture, help them articulate and animate that picture so that that real runs in their mind, that's an ongoing challenge for any art director or designer, and copywriter for that matter, right?

So the big brands, I'm Ella Bean and Lands End and there are some people that still rely on catalogs like that and some big manufacturing, catalog manufacturers, catalogs, know, you'll go to some desk and in the back office or shipping department, go to the computer, go to the catalog and look at the board of these.

don't know if any one camp has monopoly on the market anymore, man. It seems to me there's just additional channels that we need to speak into for different types of people.

 

Matt Zaun 

Right?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

For sure.

 

Matt Zaun

Longer, just the print. Yeah. I really like what you said about a matter. edge in the feeling. It's a really good way to look at it.

So whatever is being sold, putting yourself in the customer's shoes, asking us as the ones crafting the narrative, crafting a story, imagine what they would be feeling at that moment, seeing that, and having them see themselves in your store.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

really like that.

 

Matt Zaun

Sure.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Think about if we mentioned yellow beans. So just think about that. If you're somebody in a picture, we're being duck boots and a flannel shirt, and they're sitting outside a cabin, man, you just imagine yourself in the Adirondacks.

Look, I'm terrible at cutting wood. I'm not going to chop that wood like that guy in the pictures, but it's nice to be there in the fall, wouldn't it?

Even if it's in the middle of summer, you're thinking fall already. So you're paying that patient, not unlike a movie.

Matt Zaun

For sure.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Yeah. a storybook for that matter.

 

Matt Zaun 

You know, it's interesting. So I do a lot of workshops. And when I first got into the workshop space, I was concerned because I don't use a slide deck.

So I don't use to Right now, I don't use flip charts. I actually rely on a workbook for the visual or the audio.

Workbook, you go for it.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Printed work.

 

Matt Zaun 

Nice. So when I got into it, my thought is how is your audience going to respond?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Because a lot of audiences that you know are used to the slide deck, right?

 

Matt Zaun

Sometimes way too many slides. The response has been overwhelmingly positive. I cannot even begin to tell you how many compliments I've gotten with people having a workbook in their hand.

They're flipping through it. They're writing in it. They're making that emotional connection. Now, it is an investment, right? It is a financial investment, but people do not want to throw it away.

It's so well put together and made. They don't want to toss it in the trash can. They'll put it on their desk.

They'll put it in a filing cabinet. So I think that's really important that making something so good, people feel guilty throwing away and it also stands out.

It stands out because it's not the slide deck. So, I think it's so important. I think it's so underutilized, especially today.

are so focused on digital digital digital. So, I think there's a way that people can get above the noise through focusing on print.

So, for anyone listening that has never thought about adding print as a strategy regarding their marketing and sales, where would you recommend they start?

Will there be a few things that you would recommend they evaluate and from there, they would start to implement print?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Great point. You've raised a lot of great points here. If I could speak to your point to accent, what you said, I still have workshop notebooks that I had in early 2000s.

And here's one thing I've thought about it, like I've thought about almost thrown them away. But when I see the notebook, I can go through page by page and I remember where it was.

And I'm almost sometimes I can even remember the people I was sitting next to at an event, feeling the same way.

To that point, one of the things I've learned about workbooks is that I don't know how you do yours.

It's easy to get a slide deck presentation. walk out of the room and kind of your lucky two days, right?

You feel like you pull the plug because you really don't remember too much. Here you've given them a gift to help spark their memory on maybe somebody's they sat next to or maybe they've personally sat next to who said something about something like me and that thing come from the front of the room.

came from the side. There's a lot of wisdom in the room that people can collect and they captured and take away with them.

One of the best things I've found people to do when you do have a workbook is work to have it in a way so that people were flipping through it and it might not make sense to them.

It's almost like they need Matt to help guide them through the book, right? There may be some, it could be an acronym or it could be an odd phrase that they mean.

What does he mean by this? I'm going to make sure I stay there and then write down, right? You're reminded from the room, hey, write this down because this is what this means because it's Matt's spin on the idea.

It's your take. It's your interpretation and you're sharing that. It's him. they walk out, they walk out with a gift.

So, being able to put print to work, it could be as simple as, could be a postcard. Think about, to your point before, think about the walk to your mailbox, and I always say that's valuable real estate.

If you've got a driveway or someplace you got to walk, people go collect the mail and they're walking back and they're sifting through, know, junk mail, junk mail, this is crap, I don't need, and they're going to put the others on the dining room table, the kitchen table, everything else is going to go in the But, during that walk back, they've got a decipher, is your mailing, is your piece interesting enough for them to keep it?

do you incite? I'm going to open that. I'm not sure what's inside. So, envelopes are easily printed. Make sure you put some teasers on the outside, to get them inside, you're going to go with an envelope.

Or make your pictures, your graphics, outside postcard that they've got a tear open, right? Or if it's a fold over postcard, something like that, make it interesting, enough of them, kind of, you want that arch eyebrow, you want that, man, what's going on in there?

I'm curious about that. See, when I'm going drive curiosity. think studying, look, tell many people, I was a fan of

It's major in school, probably one of the workers wants, but I ended up in marketing. I was always interested in sociology and human behavior.

How do people consume information and how, what makes them behave a certain way? And curiosity is probably the biggest word I lean on all the time.

Is it make me want to get inside there? Now, there's all different thoughts on that. Like who's the particular market we're working with, the animal rescue, right?

One of our clients, animal rescue and I think of how a person that really cares about animals for one, many people, it's not going to hit.

In fact, most people aren't going to necessarily care. But if you've got a tight market, if you've got what you call a tidy list of people that really care about what you're doing and honor that, double down and give me information.

 

Matt Zaun 

For sure, for sure. So there's a few things that you mentioned and I really appreciate. So first regarding the workbook, I feel like you validated me today because my workbook is laid out in a way that would potentially be confusing as far as the layout in the actual session.

So for instance, when people open the workbook, I have them go to page.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

three right away.

 

Matt Zaun 

And I jump around and I'm telling them, listen, it's going to make sense to you at the end why it's laid out the way it is.

Now, the reason why it's laid out the way it is is because when they go through it a second time by themselves, and as they're implementing the concepts, they go from start to finish.

And it really helps with the implementation for them. It's a summary of everything we went through. It goes step one through nine of every single thing to do.

So it makes sense to go on the layout. But in the actual session itself, they need a guide right mean based on what you said to walk them through what they're looking at.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

So I really appreciate you validating that. But you're not going to score me a mad zone ticket.

 

Matt Zaun 

There we go.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

You're not only the guide, you're holding their hand as they go through there, right? rely on that and you're kind of walking through it.

Think again, like a kid and you're walking the young kids into some new place. They may not have known, but you're the experienced one.

 

Matt Zaun 

Come on, sure, sure. I also appreciate you mentioning the verbiage, put print to work.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

It's really important, put print to work, and then- For it, employ it. it's an employee, it can be an employee for you.

It's an ambassador for your brand. Get it out there, as long as it's getting in the right hand, or people that are not going to have good prospects that could be there, like man, here's the chance for your company to talk when you're not in the room.

And I can hand it over to the person next to me. know, so I think there's lot of power there, and keep it interesting.

People just want interesting, right? We've got enough fluff. Don't tell me how great your company is. I'm sure you're great.

Tell me why you're great. What am I? What's the reward I take away? What's the outcome for me?

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, I appreciate that interest and piece. Now, one of the questions I do have, so we're all familiar, sometimes too familiar with political mailers.

And one of the things when it comes to political mailers is, if they could get you to laugh, there's that connection that's made.

That's why sometimes they're they're still over their top. ridiculous so that the person chuckles on the way to the trash bin to throw it away or they might laugh.

How does humor play a part when it comes to print media? Should business leaders be thinking about making it a little bit humorous or is that also a dangerous area to be in?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Dangerous. Dangerous maybe. I'm not sure that's the right word. Challenging would be the larger word that I'd focus on.

And here's why. We all have different senses of humor, right? It's easy for you and I, if we're looking at each other's eyes for me to bring sarcasm into our relationship, right?

But to a text or an email, how do you invite? How you invite sarcasm here? you don't really know the person, because sometimes you can tell by the tone of voice how things happen, how somebody feels.

Mailers can be a real tricky and especially in boy, added into the throws at political fire. Certainly the last two months, who humor?

suspect you're not going to see too much humor anymore. It's going to be dagger pointing. he said she said, and that goes for local politics.

 

Matt Zaun

as well as national.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

So it's get it's going to get ugly. I suspect it's going to get ugly. I'll see it that way to down.

 

Matt Zaun 

Well, thank you for your time today, Kevin.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

I really appreciate it.

 

Matt Zaun 

I feel like we touched on so many points.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

So there's there's five takeaways that I'm going to have in this conversation, which is very rare.

 

Matt Zaun 

So most of the times I just get three, but I got I want to go through. So I really appreciate you mentioning the storybook piece as it pertains to our kids.

I'm going to process that a little bit more because I think that there's a nostalgic element that we could be utilizing in business.

When it comes to storybook, when it comes to workbooks, when it comes to catalogs, I think that's incredibly important.

The second piece is I really appreciate you mentioning the merchandising piece as it pertained to the serial aisle. I've never heard before about certain eyes looking at certain shelf levels when it comes to a customer.

That's fascinating to me. it really speaks to we should be incredibly intentional with our print. We should be envisioning where's the person going to be opening it here?

Where are they going to be looking here? How intentional can we be when it comes to our print? think that was an incredible point.

Third point, I appreciate you saying imagine this feeling. So for people going through the story of what we have in print, imagine the feeling that they're going to have seeing themselves in that story.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

I think that was another key point.

 

Matt Zaun 

The fourth piece that I appreciate from my perspective is the the workbook piece. You mentioned that if it doesn't make sense, that's okay.

If you're the guide, you're the one holding their hand taking them through the process. I appreciate that that as well.

then the fifth and final piece was put print to work. If it's interesting for people to keep, that's a positive as well as us being curious as well and passing that curiosity on to our prospect slash clients.

really like that phrase, put print to work, make it an employee and ambassador.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Good for you. Wow, that's great. I feel honored. Thanks for interpreting that we did there, but we seem to speak to similar type people and everybody's a consumer.

B2B companies are just made up of C's, right? All the consumers work at B2B.

 

Matt Zaun 

So it's not too much of a stretch. It's people say B2C or B2B. A lot of times they overlap a lot of ways.

Oh, for sure.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Absolutely.

 

Matt Zaun 

So Kevin, if someone wants to get more information on you, or they want to reach out for your services, where's the best place they can go to get that information?

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

Website is probably the best one. I'll link in frequently, happy to engage with people there until they start a conversation.

 

Matt Zaun 

Perfect. I'll include your website and your LinkedIn in the show notes.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

People can just click and go from there. Super.

 

Matt Zaun 

Thanks for the This is great. Yeah, thanks for your time.

 

MODERN SBC (ModernSBC)

right.

 

Matt Zaun 

Appreciate it.