Part 1 | Six Figure Sales Secrets | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

SERIES: This podcast episode is a part of a series with Author, Marcus Chan.  In the next 2 episodes, we will unpack numerous concepts in his book, Six Figure Sales Secrets.

SUMMARY: In this episode, Marcus Chan and Matt Zaun talk about the difference between being good at sales and crushing your sales goals.

MARCUS CHAN BIO: Marcus is the founder of Venli Consulting Group and Six Figure Sales Academy.

For more info, check out Marcus here |
https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcuschanmba
https://www.venliconsulting.com
https://www.closewithchan.com/6-figure-sales-secrets-book-a21

MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattzaun/

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

Two weeks ago, my wife and I inquired about getting work done in our house. One of the companies that we reached out to immediately sent out a sales rep. And within minutes of talking to this gentleman, I felt weird. Have you ever spoken to someone while they're trying to sell to you and you just don't feel right. And what's amazing to me is I was interested I was highly interested I was the one that reached out to them and after this gentleman left my house, I was certain there's absolutely no way I'm going to do business with this company. He came across as extremely salesy. A week later, I reached out to another company and spoke to another sales wrap. And I was so impressed that I didn't even ask about pricing. In fact, I asked for more. What else can you do for my wife and I when it comes to different fixtures in our house, I was so interested and excited to work with this company. What is it that what is the difference between individuals who are okay at sales, and those that Crusher? That's going to be the topic of conversation today, because today I'm joined by Marcus Chan, who is the founder of family Consulting Group and six figure sales Academy. In addition, he recently put out an incredible book into the world. Six Figure sales secrets. Welcome to the show, Marcus.
Hey, what's up Matt for so thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and I appreciate you sharing that story because I've definitely been so many similar situations. You know, personally where that it's you're ready to buy but that person based on how they ran that sales call turns you away, so I totally feel that
I was already sold, and he was trying to sell me he was trying to sell me on the different features that I didn't care about. And I'm like, calm down like I'm already ready to buy like my wallet is about ready to open. I want this I called you and it became so slimy and salesy. It was I was giving him an alley oop, all he needs to do is just take the ball and put it through the basket. And it's amazing how many people are teed up they're ready to go and they just blow it because they are so into this the sale they need to close they need to do this. And it's not about that and you know that so I appreciate your time today. I'm really interested in unpacking what what's the difference between someone like that and someone who actually is crushing it and sales
so I you know, what's interesting is I'll go ahead sorry, good. No good. Old was gonna say is it's such a such a good example of, I think a transition a lot of people end up making. Hopefully they eventually make it when they actually become great sales because you go from kind of pushy, pushy, pushy how that commission breath or if you're a an entrepreneur with a profit revenue, you're trying to close the meet you need the cash flow or whatever it is. If you can make that shift to become a trusted advisor, then just like your second person you talk to that you see them as a resource. In fact, you actually ask them more questions like hey, how else can I spend more money with you? You may not say those words, necessarily. But you may say, Hey, I'd love to get your opinion on this, but do think about this and they can help share insights. And actually help guide you to make the best buying decision for you because you actually feel
hurt. Sure, I really liked that that trusted advisor because what's amazing to me and we'll unpack this because there is a story that you mentioned in your book that almost speaks exactly to this But what's amazing to me is the scenario that I mentioned where I was really excited to do business with the other company. I was excited to work with this sales rep this trusted advisor they were asking me question after question after question to make sure that they were actually in alignment with what I wanted. The other sales rep just continued to talk at me for an ad nauseam, really selling me on things that I didn't care about. I didn't care about different elements of the company I didn't care about you know, X y&z All these things that he was trying to sell me, and it's amazing. You actually mentioned a really good story in your book that I want to get to. Now before we do I do want to dive into more about your background, your history, your story, because I find it fascinating. So I really want to start there. And I want to I want to talk about personality as well. So you had mentioned in your book when you're talking about your story, you said I wasn't born with all the qualities it takes to be a top performer. You had mentioned your parents, so they were immigrants. They come over here they have an eighth grade education. They're unbelievably hard working. They opened up a Chinese restaurant and Eugene, Oregon that you start working at very young. I believe you're five years old. You mentioned that you were one of I believe six in the family living in a tiny house. So you were raised with gut wrenching hard work, right.
100% Like when you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, at the very base level is like survival, right your basal essentials and that's how we grew up early on. So as a family in Asian culture, we're pretty tight knit so you know, even though yes, we had no money but we were family. So we all work together and everyone pitched in regardless of age. So growing up I saw that but I also saw my parents sacrifice and how hard they had to work to even to build a life that they want to really have. And for them that was that was you know, working 80 to 100 hour weeks working non stop and I saw this and I was part of it growing up. And it's interesting because as you grow up in this environment, you experience different things. You know, for example, when kids will get out for school, even in elementary school, they'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna go you'll play with us. They'll go to our house to play exactly where do you want to go the restaurant? Good shot mushrooms in the back. Like what? You know, so you have a different art I idea about life, about childhood, about money, about scarcity, about selling about business, you just grew up so differently and you're different theaters because you weren't was shaped by what's around you as well. So early on that that that was instilled very, very deeply to me is you got to work hard to have results and realize eventually, later on, that's only one part of the equation.
Sure, no, I appreciate you mentioning that because I somewhat similar not not exactly your your specifics as far as the work ethic and what you saw, but for me, my when I was born from the time I was born, so about the time I was 11, my father was doing double Ironman Triathlon. So for those of you listening that aren't aware of double Ironman, go look up an Ironman triathlon and then double it. It's it's absolute craziness, right and that was when I saw I saw my father, who was an absolute machine. I mean, unbelievable work ethic. And that really positioned me just like your story positioned you that we both get into sales, and the work but quote unquote work I'm using air quotes because the work is so subjective because what I witnessed my father go through what you witnessed your parents go through, it almost is far superior workwise to what we experienced in sales, and I found it very difficult because I get in sales and now it's I want to go go go I keep I'm banging my head against the wall. I'm aggressively going after it. And as you know, and you speak a lot about this in your book. There wasn't a new strategy behind it. I could work hard I could I could work so hard on blacking out due to stress. I could work so hard so many sleepless nights. That's good, hard work. But now let's put strategy behind it. So do you think first off do you think that in order to be successful at sales, you need a specific personality and you need to have a heightened level of work ethic? So
I think it's what is what a great question. I think it definitely helps, right? I think what helps even more is if you have massive self awareness, because when you have massive self awareness, then you actually know what you do is ends and what type of results and think early on. I didn't have a self awareness. All I knew was I could work really hard in the past rules I was in that I was good enough that I was gonna have to have pretty good grades like I think about even school and some people are gonna disagree with this, but I believe if if you go to college or go to high school, if you just show up and try, you'll probably get B's and C's like you don't have to be that smart to get B's and C's why C's get degrees, the universe kind of show up. But if you're a little more focused on what you're doing the right behaviors within that work, you might you'll get A's A pluses, etc. And I've always had kind of mindset and you know, when I got into sales, I first tried the work ethic piece because I thought that could be like I've always like I've always worked hard. Like that's what got me here. And to a certain extent that may work. But I think I was also blessed with the gift of starting b2b sales in the last recession. Meaning there's less money out there less capital less funds people more resistant. So hard work by itself wasn't going to cut it actually have you better at my job. So when I first got started, I apply same work ethic that I did that I've always had, I was out working everyone I made the most calls cold calls. I walked in most businesses I did most cold emails, my activity was easily three four or 510 X everyone else, but I had the worst results. So like work ethic wise, first in last out like I was that guy, but the results not aligned to it. And if you don't have that self awareness, you'll just keep trying to do that and I tried to that rabbit hole burn you out and you'll get a bit scared of pressed hate live want to quit sales. So that's why I think it's definitely a one key component to have that because if you have self committing and self awareness, any a work ethic, then you know what they want to work on, or what things to work out to actually move the needle. But if you only work ethic, the truth is, I don't a lot of broke people who are way harder than I do. So work ethic a little bit will not get you to where you want to go into work. Do the right thing. The high leverage things that actually move the needle that will generate the highest potential output. It's
interesting listening to you talk about self awareness, he actually mentioned massive self awareness and to me a lot of that comes back to humility. It's actually us humbling ourselves enough to recognize there are weaknesses that we have that we need to potentially surround with strategy to overcome. And what's interesting is typically you don't hear a sales rep and humility in the same sentence, right? Because, you know, a lot of times we're egotistical and we're ego driven and we really want to go go go and we want to crush those sales goals and we want to, to achieve right but I do think there's an element of humility with this because and you speak to that, indirectly in the book that you know, you're working really, really hard but you recognize there are things happening that you needed. to humble yourself to really seek the proper wisdom to do what you need it to do. So I really appreciate you mentioned that self awareness. It's extremely important. I want to shift gears with something that you mentioned that I thought was really interesting that you would want you to talk about. You had mentioned scripts, verse frameworks. I really liked this. You said great actors and actresses have a script, but how they deliver their lines determines the impact everything matters. You go into inflection paste pauses in a different personalities, but once they know the lines, well, then they can adjust on the fly based on the partner that they're with based on what's happening within different scenes and different reactions that are happening. So I want you to talk about the difference between the scripts and framework.
Awesome. So I'll share a little background right because this is like this is something that I've learned over time. And I remember when I first came across this concept was my first like, real like shirt and tie job, if you will. It was an internship working for a major, major Fortune 500 companies selling car rental insurance, right so like people will rent a car, I had to sell them insurance. And I remember, in the very first week we had things like this, like why don't we internship Bootcamp for high we're in there. And they're teaching us the sales script for this. And I remember like it was a class of like, maybe 1520 other interns. And I remember like taking them like okay, like, I would read it. I'm like, I sound like a robot. So that whole week, every night because I was living Eugene at the time. And I came with a whole week in Portland for the whole week. So every night in my hotel room, gave us a script on Monday I would go through literally hundreds of times, like memorizing it because I was like, I was so anxious. I'd say just like in college, we would do the presentation of the group. I was so scared to look bad. I want to have so well memorized that I knew that it would sound good when I do it's not natural. So that whole week every night I'm practicing. I haven't memorized you know by the middle of week is flowing. It was real interesting. At this point. It was still a script. Now fast for the following week. I had a chance to actually start using it because I was live in a branch and the first person I did the script on I actually closed and a supplement of insurance. And fast forward 30 days later, all on top like although on top reps in the whole region. And this is out of all the full time employees like who is this kid What is he doing? And the second month again, I want to talk again, and this is like probably 5060 Different like different like other like, you know, reps, interns manage trades, etc. And they're like, and I remember this was like it was July, July 2005. And I remember one or the other interns called me who was at the very bottom of all the rankings. And he's like, Dude, what are you? What are you doing? I'm like how are you dude, all this like, you'd be like, say something weird, something different. I'm like, I'm like I didn't understand like what he's talking about. He's like, I'm like, he's like, What are you saying? Exactly. I'm like, let me is kind of run through and run through my whole script. He's like, Dude, that's basically what they taught us and training. I'm like, Yeah, I know. I know. I'm like, it's, it's a script. But I took it. I've done so many times. Now. Now I'm able to adjust a little bit to fit me. So it's not even in the script, really a framework. And if I understands a framework, I can adapt on the fly because I know it's so well. And he's like, that sounds super natural, like I know because I've literally this point out of 1000s of times, but before I even got on a call with a potential prospect or a customer. I had already gone through at least 1000 time before our first time. Wow. So I can make it natural and sound natural to me. And the way I picture a scripts or even a framework or whatever you want to call it to me I use almost interchangeably. It's much like driving on an eight lane freeway. Everyone's heading the same direction. But based off the traffic and what's going on other cars, you might speed up slow down, change lanes go to slow down go to other lanes merge merge back on, but you're still going the same direction. And that's what a strict or framework is designed to be like and this is why when you see the greatest actors and actresses, they all have a script, but it's how they deliver the scripts. That makes it personal human just like them. It does not sound robotic. And when you start to internalize that, you start looking back and realizing every single word that you i anyone says is actually from someone else that we've learned every single word we say even even our our little mannerisms it's because we've learned from someone else which is basically that our script and all just taken that and put it into our head and now repeat it and we don't even realize that's what it is. That's why a young kid who lives in a complete in a culture of pickup multiple languages, because they're picking up a script from somebody else. So we started realizing reps are just frameworks all around and they come from everywhere. But if you don't have focus your energy to have the right to have a subpoena for the follow and how to adjust it. Then you can make it natural and you can make it fit the situation that context you're selling to
sure I love that I love it's like same bones different muscle. That's it having different muscle with what we're doing depending on who we're working with. I love the eight lanes of traffic right because sometimes we need to gauge hey, if we if we're all the way over in the left lane and we got to get over to that one exit we got to make that right we need to figure out do we need to speed up do we need to slow down? How do we safely navigate that to do I love that example that you mentioned? So let's talk about practice because so many people will ask how to make sure that it doesn't become robotic, mechanical, it doesn't become mundane and boring. How do you how do you balance the two between a heightened level of practice and going over potentially a role playing potentially going through that script again and again and still being energetic and having enthusiasm and having some emotions to back that up? How's that balancing act?
Great question. So the first piece is understanding like when you think about really anything, if you look at if you look at enough of the same thing and you start to see patterns, right? If you look at an essay, you see a pattern, he's literally looking at content, you see there's patterns happening right posts, you look at books and same thing. You're looking at your sales calls, you start seeing there's a pattern. And when you understand there's a pattern to it. That means there's a process in place, and the best salespeople understand as a process. It doesn't necessarily it's linear, like okay, I'm here step one, step two, step three steps up to five in a sales call, but they understand that there is a process so the first step is being massively aware. What is the existing process you're doing? That's the first step. And I think the mistake a lot of people make is, you know, they get a copy of my book or the thesis about YouTube. And they're like, alright, this is a better process. Let me completely change everything that I'm doing. I think that's huge mistake because there might be parts that you already did a really good job, but you just need to make a little bit better. You know, it's kind of like if you get a brand new car, you know, I personally like music a lot, but I get a brand new car stereo settings aren't quite right. So I don't really get a whole new stereo. I just need to first adjust the treble, adjust the bass, I just made the style of the music so comes in the way I want it to sound. So we take a look at current processes. Same thing you take a look at what am I currently doing to edit all these core fundamentals? You know, do I have these may be at least a cabinet agenda, the very beginning kind of set the tone? And then do I have some specific questions I want to ask and what type of questions are they? And then once you have that, do you have a follow up next step or close the very end? How does that actually look? And you sort of mapping that out? That's a first step. So you have an idea about the processes. And then how can you tighten up even more? How can you improve them more? So I'll give you an example. So I'll just do a call recording former students my program superstar this guy is one of the top 50% reps at his companies of major company. And he sent me the call we're going for a discovery call which is like the first intro call can't dive into the situation. He did an amazing job, right? And look through fundamentally hit all the core things and the only thing we really need to add which is really 9.9 release script to actually be able to take one question and go even deeper. And that's really it. And sometimes reality is is like when you're on a sales call there are human being. So you have to be able to understand the whole process. So you got to go deeper, right? Or another example is, you know, I also another call recording dealer sales rep. And they had these questions they wanted to ask. So as I started wanting to call it pendulums a robotic, and then the customer early on in conversation asked, you know, started sharing something that eventually you're going to find out anyways. Right? It's our shared little bit about the decision making process, which is very important understand. It's actually an early on the process. And the salesperson is like, oh, cool, thanks. Right It writes down our next question but the reality is, is they only got to serve souls that question actually need to go deeper. But in their head, they're like, well, that's part of the process. So you go back to the eight lane highway. It's like based on how other cars are driving. That's an opportunity you already there. You might as well you might want to go on a deep deeper into that whole uncovering the whole process and then transition to the next question. So the first step is being really aware what your current process is mapping out, what are the stages that you want to cut, work on things you want to know. And then from there, you started to tweak and start to prove each part to get to where you wanted to go. And one really simple way to uncover what you need to prove in your in your sales call is just look at the last 10 opportunities, a lot of toys that you did not close. You did not close. What exactly was it that you did not uncover up front that you could leverage to close on the back end. So give a really simple example. So you know, I'll wash it up another call recording from the rep and wind up happening was is they had to they had to do let Netherlands CFO CFO know to get by it right. So now that the deals been stalled for like two months now. We go to the CFO is we haven't talked to CFO at all there's been no engagement. So that's why this deal sold out. But if we know it'd be really common challenge of why deals get stalled out, then why not you incorporated the top part of your sales process. And you dive in deeper upfront and you get them involved to get their executive buy in before move deeper in the process. So we started thinking this way you able to actually reverse engineer your process, but it starts number one, knowing what kind of process is how you stage it, and how do you start to tidy up and improve it and then how can you sort of reverse engineering areas you miss back into the beginning?
That's awesome. So it almost reminds me of like looking at analytics with video. So you know, there's a lot of different platforms out there. You put out a video you see Alright, people will get to the third minute and when they're at the third minute sometimes the rewind, why are they rewinding? Oh is it because this one point I need to expand it and then maybe they're only getting to the seven minute mark and then it stops even if it's a 15 minute video. Why is that? It's almost like you're you're reverse engineering the entire meeting to try to put different questions and scenarios up front. I love that. That is awesome. One of the amazing to have like analytics on all the meetings that like the the in person meetings we have that would be amazing.
But oh yeah, it takes but the first step is is even just watch it on call recordings. Sure, right. Sure. You'll see like, she is like, I really didn't articulate that very well or, Oh, I could go deeper there that she learns that right. So really, then you'll start to see her view ours are seeing that without any analytics. Sure.
That's a really good point. So one of the things that you mentioned about the human being elements, so as good as it is to see the numbers and the analytics and everything as far as maybe I could have done this right. You had mentioned at the end of the day it is another human being that we're doing business with. Right. And you mentioned in your book about the difference regarding numbers game and the relationship. And I think that you mentioning, you know, it's a human being I think that's a really good segue. So about 10 years ago, I read a book called gopher now and it was it was really good for me at the time. Okay. And it was good for me at the time because it gamified my business when it came to a sales perspective. And what I did was I literally put on my wall, different numbers and metrics on how many noes I wanted to get in a specific month basically looking at all of the different numbers saying if I get X amount of nose, it's going to equate to this amount of business. So it was good to gamify it was good to really focus on the numbers. But then at the end of the day, I had to really say what you just said is that you're talking to a human being. They're not robots, they're their people. And I think there is a balancing act. You speak very, very eloquently to in your book, but you talked about getting crystal clear on your ideal customer. And then you said have you ever had a sales manager that said it's about the numbers or smile and dial and the more hands you shake the more money you make? So can you talk about that balancing act between the numbers and the metrics? And then also the human element?
Absolutely. You know, I think in my opinion, I think a lot of people interpret the numbers game in the wrong way because I find really weak sales leaders in my opinion. Their go to advanced for someone underperforming is to say it's a numbers game cricket activity LG make more calls. I'll just send more emails. I want you to keep knocking on more doors I want you to rent everything else. You seem to be able to do more demos once you all this. To me, that is much like a doctor trying to prescribe a solution or medication without diagnosing the situation. Because the reality is is if the emails let's just say for sending emails, if the emails are only getting a 5% open rate ended like a point zero 1% reply rate, throwing more emails that out only scales crap. So if you're trying to scale crops sure you do that right. Or you can focus on the right type of numbers and actually improve it the better question is worth 5% How can we make it 3040 50% open rate? The reply was, how can we improve that improve the email copy? Right? And we started thinking this way you're actually working improved conversion ratios versus just playing a high, you know, high quantity game. And when you start thinking this way, you start shifting how you think you start shifting thinking about okay, if I'm the other person who's seen this email or this cold call or this sales presentation how how would I feel? How would I react to that? And you sort of shifting from thinking about numbers by itself but you start thinking about selling as really, you know, serving at the highest level. And if you really believe your solution can truly positive impact another company, a person, their lives or organization, their initials across the board. To sell them is ultimate service to them. But you can't do that through just like hitting them super hard non stop and having bad messaging and playing the quantity game you energy through quality. Because the funny thing is, is on the opposite side, that sales manager who's saying that play the numbers game. They themselves hate the game called called. They hate getting cold emails. They hate getting the input into a sequence. So we already know we don't want that behavior, so why not change it? And what happens is when you start making the shift, even when target perspectives are realizing not every prospect is the same. Instead of just mass blasting everyone I'm gonna focus on this specific mark that I know I can help but I know their pains wants desires or interferes or their thoughts I can read their mind essentially if you focus on that one specific niche as you go after that you truly serve them. They'll feel until they'll feel your messaging. They'll feel in your outreach. They'll feel everything. And it's funny because you know for opportunities we have in our pipeline and we sell to the most skeptical people in the world. Which are salespeople, right, which are very skeptical. It's funny how many how often they'll comments and comment, you know, just our process. And they'll be like, this is exactly how I want to do it. I'm like, Yeah, because you're a human being like, when you play the numbers game. It's understanding how do you interpret that is it I'm gonna play to the quality or is a mixture of the right number, right and right conversion ratios, which truly serves the other person receiving it.
It's so powerful. It's so powerful. And several years ago, I heard a gentleman say to me know if you're a doctor, and there's someone that is out there that's sick and you actually have something that they need to make them better. It's almost heinous and evil to withhold that from them. Like your duty as a doctor is to help people as much as they can be helped. And it's speaking to your point that if you have a service you have a product that you know will significantly enhance someone's life, to hold that back is doing them a major disservice. We have to figure out a way to really get it in their hands get in front of them, and the most human way possible. And I think that that's a good transition to your story regarding the doctor who worked with you because I think this adds to the human element. I love this story that you mentioned in your book. This is one of the many reasons why I just love your book, the six figure sales secrets you it's just gorgeous with incredible stories that are learning opportunities and then backed with different scenarios. It is just gorge with info and wisdom and I really appreciate it. One of the stories that you mentioned was you were in a sales role and two months then you get called into your boss's office, and he's threatening to give you a performance improvement plan everyone hates those. And have you had this sense of fear of stress. And then soon after that you went and you met with your doctor. And you mentioned that she didn't she she barely talked. She wasn't talking at you she was asking questions that led you to a certain decision making process and after the meeting, you had you talked about just how blown away you were that she actually sold you on something she sold you a specific idea and you did most of the talking so can you talk about a little bit more?
Yeah, absolutely. Right. And the reality is, if we as salespeople say it, it's probably not true. But if the prospect says it must be true, and when you understand fertilise that you realize the way to sell is not through telling is through asking. And this is why I remember that specific experience where I look back I'm like, wow, that was really impressive. And when I really think about the whole situation how a doctor has sold me into completely changing my diet and everything. It starts with the whole process of how even doctors are structured in offices structure. So when you think about this, when you go book an appointment with a new doctor or existing doctor, you go first and you felt like in an online questionnaire or a paper questionnaire, and even the main time they make you refill it every so often. And then when your appointment comes, first nurse comes brings you in and they start asking you questions first. They start asking more questions will brush you when they're taking your blood they will that are weighing you they're doing all their blood pressure to do all these things. Even before the doctor comes to ask those questions. They take all that data, the endpoints are a laptop or other board, whatever they're doing, and then the doctor comes in, and the doctor again revalidating something that comes in the same questions in a different way. And they're asking more and more questions to uncover your situation. And then based off of that, then do they prescribe a medication next step or whatever it's going to be? And often what happens is because you all are being forced, if you will, to answer questions and also to really thick and pause now you internalize the situation much more. And as suddenly before we know it, even if you have what's I call elite that need which is a knee that you did not know you have versus an activity that activity means you actually have a need. So for example, if I like been thrown up, I'd have an acne for some sort of some sort of help. Elite need is some is going on. I have no idea. That doctor that was with basic questions based off what she was measuring. She's like, hey, like you've gained some weight since we last saw you. You know, like you've also your blood pressure has really skyrocketed, which made sense because I was a new b2b sales role. Right? So it's like, wow, it's really enlightening. So now I'm sold that I have a problem. So what happens is once you're sold off and you have a problem, the natural next question is, how do I solve it? Now I'm open to that conversation. So she sold me two things or wants you to sell me on a problem, the number two, she sold me the solution that three and let you solve that problem. She doesn't ask me questions, and then provide a summary. And so I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're right. Like when you're stuck. When you're stuck in the woods, you don't see the forest right. So and then she's able to recommend that and I think about a salesperson is so much like this where, you know if it's if it's an inbound prospect, usually they already know they have an active need. They're just looking at other options, but you still want to dive in deep. You'll run my call to the 9010 rule which is 9% asking question 10% actually going over your solution, assuming it makes sense, right? If you do that, it's also really close. You know, or if it's if it's completely cold outbound and you booked that meeting, you definitely need to do 9010 Because they don't believe them paid. So you just you know, you happen to book the meeting. And so now you have to go through that right. And I'll use a really good example. I was really happy. So this is a couple years back and I was one of the rep. And we had actually we did door knocking walk through this business happening to get the owner. It was a really large grocery chain, and he would own multiple operations and we walk to the happy to get the owner, the owners like I got some time. I got five minutes. So we sit down in his office, and we just do a deep dive. And fast forward 45 minutes and this guy is entrenched in our conversation. Wow. We haven't told him what we do what we sell any of our solutions. But we said we've asked him questions, and I remember because he was like it was right before as a 1045. He's like, Oh crap. We've been here for like 45 minutes. He's like, I'm really sorry guys, but I have a I prepare we have a huge lunch rush from everyone coming into our lunch break the next couple hours. I have actually the troops are ready to ready to go so um, can we can we send another follow up meeting like I'm really interested in and I remember this I almost like flat he's like, guys, I know the way we want you to sell me but I know I have a problem I need to buy whatever you have to sell but I was like Wow, it's amazing. Right? And we we've looked at me for the afternoon and we leave I talk about rapid we were like laughing but I'm like see, this isn't the power like we literally presented absolutely nothing. He went from a complete dualism of his head and no idea hidden issue to we took him from a latent need to an active need and 45 minutes not by telling them anything. By simply asking questions. He came his own conclusions that he had a big problem. And of course my rep went back afternoon. Also super easy, Austin huge opportunity. And now that was that super simple, right but that 10% of the presenting was so so easy. Like, half the time if you do a good job, or if you do an amazing job on the front end. Then I'm asking about the price. They're just like, you know any of this. What do I sign?
Yeah, and that's an amazing story very much appreciate you sharing that now one of the things that I will say though, is how much of that speaks to us growing as people as really learning how to communicate learning in a relationship dynamic, how to truly connect. Because I mean, you at that point in your career, more than likely you had had some reps with actually talking with people learning how to have a conversation, learning how to respond versus react. So when a lot of that go into our ability to actually just communicate as people.
So I think that's one part of the equation, right? And we go back to the self awareness piece, and I'll give you I'll show you what I had to be learning so early on. I was told I have zero self awareness. Still working on it still working on and I remember early on I was told this and and I felt in my sales calls. I frankly did you know I would have a book, some terrible meetings, I'd walk in, and it was like a 30 minute meeting and be like, maybe 510 minutes, based off how I was carrying myself and so that question I was asking, and early on, I would blame them. Oh, that's just a bad prospect. Matt. He's just he's just a heart. He's a hard guy like that's just how he is like, it's the economy. It's the recession. This is why it's not me, right. It had his ego. That's what it was. It was an ego. And eventually I came across a book called by Tony Robbins called Awaken the Giant Within. And one of the things you mentioned in there is you don't like the answer ask a better question. I remember like reading that over and over like if you don't like the answer, ask a better question. You don't like the answer ask a better question or calm. Interesting. So I'm like, Okay, so these calls are going well, what can I do differently? How can I better engage them? What can you do? How can I adjust my tonality? How can I adjust what question I asked how can I just hybrid pair? How can I control what I can control how we get a better end result? So I sort of asking these questions, I get different answers. So I started doing this this start helping me improve every part of my process. And the most beautiful part about sales is you can have metrics for every part of your sales process. So if I had a discovery that not converts the next type of presentation that told me something, I'm like I'm interesting in five minutes or 10 people or at 510 discovery calls and only one go to next step. Why? Why don't another night What can I do differently? Was it better targeting can do a better job than other call? What can you do differently to get that to say to 10? Now three out of 10 So by doing this and becoming four to see my myself to look at the hard data even didn't like it, and really understanding my metrics across the board, allow me to have awareness to start improving. Like the first step to growth is being able to look in the mirror and say, I have to improve and that's really hard to do for a lot of people. It is so easy to blame other people so for me personally, to get to a point where in that situation without taking a completely cold prospect and to walk in and close them for a like 20 30k opportunity in 45 minutes. That didn't happen overnight. That's that's them from me focusing on improving the game, and even to this day. Now I've been I've been in the b2b sales game for over 15 years now. I still measure every part of the process. I still, I still do my own call record for sales calls. I still do. Dang it. I probably could ever drop here. I think I can refine a little more. I think I did read them properly. Because suddenly when you're the moment you just flow. So that's why it's important to remove that ego ended up pause and always constantly improve yourself so you can actually improve communication. So I'll give you a little extra additional things to think about as well. A lot of people don't realize this, but I called the speech impediment. English is my second language. I just started speaking I was four years old and when I started speaking at a huge issues out of speech therapy classes for years. This lets me be very insecure. Unable to speak nival Talk definitely got a camera in front of people I can barely talk all my face and those demons and those fears. I was able to work on it and I'm still working every single day.
Wow, that is extremely powerful and hopefully it gives hope to people out there that do feel inadequate when it comes to their communication because you had mentioned that you felt that you have a low sense of self awareness. People told you that you're not as self aware, I never would have thought that I feel like you have a very heightened sense of self awareness based on interactions I've had with you in the past knowing different elements of how you're conducting a conversation. I think that that's it was very interesting for me to hear. And then also to for you to say that English is your second language and you have to work really hard at it that for anyone that follows your content. They're probably be wielded by that because they've seen you on camera at time and time again. So hopefully it gives people hope out there. So I very much appreciate you mentioning that. Absolutely. And in addition, I really appreciate your time with this conversation markets because I know you were extremely busy. Thank you so much. I do want to do a recap based on what I got out of our conversation today. I know there are others that might have gotten something else but I got three specific things out of our conversation today that I want to thank you for the first is I really appreciate what you said regarding work ethic is good, massive self awareness is great. I love that I love really focusing in on self awareness and being humble enough to get feedback. There's a tremendous amount of wisdom in that. The second thing I got which I really appreciate you mentioning is Be present enough to uncover patterns. This is huge. You're talking about different processes be present enough to uncover patterns within those processes. Love it. And then the third and final piece I really appreciate you mentioning that this is that typically when we say something, our prospect might not take it as truth. But if they say it, it is true, because they're the ones saying it, how do we get them to sell themselves and then present the solution to improve their situation. So those are the three top things that I got from this conversation. Thank you again, if anyone wants to get more information on you what you do they want to learn more about the book. Where would they go to get that information? Awesome.
So you can find me on LinkedIn super easily and market share and you have with my website any consulting.com If you want a free copy of my book just pay for shipping handling is headed close with chant.com perfect
so I will include that in the show notes. I'll make it super easy for everyone. I highly highly recommend people follow Marcus on LinkedIn I have for quite some time. Every time you post something I am learning and in addition and I kid you not this book that I read of Marcus is the six figure sales secrets is one of the best sales books I've ever read. And I mean that sincerely. Highly, highly recommend checking it out. And Marcus, thank you again for your time. I very much appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Thank you for listening to the stories and traction podcast. Please leave a review since by