Part 2 | Six Figure Sales Secrets | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

SERIES: This podcast episode is a part of a series with Author, Marcus Chan.  In these 2 episodes, we will unpack numerous concepts in his book, Six Figure Sales Secrets.

SUMMARY: In this episode, Marcus Chan and Matt Zaun talk about the difference between being good at sales and crushing your sales goals.

MARCUS CHAN BIO: Marcus is the founder of Venli Consulting Group and Six Figure Sales Academy.

For more info, check out Marcus here |
https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcuschanmba
https://www.venliconsulting.com
https://www.closewithchan.com/6-figure-sales-secrets-book-a21

MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattzaun/

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

But it's all through the lens of strategic storytelling. Enjoy this episode. I'm so excited because we will be talking about my favorite topic again this week, which is sales. I have Marcus chan joining us again, he actually agreed to do a second part to this concept of how to go from being good at sales to being great. I very much appreciate his time. For those of you who did not listen to that episode, I highly recommend pausing this one and go listening to the very first one with Marcus Chen. Marcus Chen is the founder of ven Lee Consulting Group and six figure sales Academy. And in addition, he just recently launched a book that I consider one of the best sales books I've ever read. I actually have a copy right here in my hand it has six figure sales secrets. Thank you for joining us again, Marcus.
My absolutely excited to be here again.
I really appreciate what we unpacked the last episode. I really do because you really had a lot of different wisdom pieces. I thought when it comes to just relationships in general when it comes to the sales process. And it's just chock full with different nuggets and different pieces that we can all take away to be better at sales, but there were three in particular that I really appreciate you mentioning, which was the work ethic piece, we had talked about how good it is to be one that understands work ethic and your background and my background. I really positioned us for that. But the problem is if we're not self aware, we could be beating our heads up against the wall. We could be really flustered and frustrated that we're not getting the results that we want. And that goes back to what you said about having massive self awareness. You also talked about patterns. I love that you talked about being present enough to uncover patterns with different processes. And then you also talked about if your prospect is saying it, it's true. And we're starting to touch on the elements of communication and I want to start there with this episode. So I feel like we are coming up against a perfect storm right now. And what I mean by that is the last few years have not been kind to people's ability to communicate. I feel like across the board, doesn't matter what company I speak at what state I'm speaking in. I feel like people's ability to connect and communicate has radically decreased. Now there's many reasons for that. I would argue that speaking in person is different than speaking virtually and a lot of people they have not properly fine tuned those communication skills. So there's that and then there's also major changes in the market, which is really positioning people to need to sell more. But now their communication isn't where it needs to be. So there's just a tremendous amount of anger, frustration, anxiety. So I really want to unpack the the elements of communication. Do you believe that in person and virtual and hybrid are different ways of connecting and communicating?
Well, 100%, but I also believe there are fundamental things that can bridge across all of them, as well. Like the strategy that I'm saying that same the tactics that you actually implement might be a little bit different. And I think it's really important to understand that because when you think about it, to be able to communicate means you're able to transfer some sort of idea, concept or message from one person to the other. Whether that is a person in a group presentation, if it's, you know, face to face meeting one on one, or it's one on one via zoom or is it via via email or whatever. You're just trying to communicate something to them, but how you do it is really what determines how effective you are. At communicating. And we just before where that awareness is really important, because what ends up happening is most people are just not aware of the shift as required when you go from say even from face to face meetings to online billing. So I'll give you a really simple example because you know, I was fortunate to have a Field Sales Team I was a field sales rep, but also my Alma team for most $2 virtual so I before even the pen that before even that shipped I was already doing a hybrid model. Like that was already just part of life when I was already doing. But the interesting thing was is like I think about even a in person sales call. I think about the moment I would walk in to that business to go to the gatekeeper to say I'm meeting with Matt at 9am There's many things already happening. They're judging very quickly, from how I carry myself or how I will walk you to one of holding to how I'm dressed, how my shoes are clean or not to how when they come out how do I interact how quick to respond. Even when you walk from the main central area to the conference room or to the office. You have even 30 seconds or even a minute or more of a poor building engagement time to build some trust and bond which is very, very important very valuable. You also have them and that are holding quarter advantage they feel more comfortable usually and that East. Now we compare that to virtual that you booked that meeting. They may or may not even show up to begin with. So how do you even communicate to be able to go ahead and get them to show up on Zoom is now shifting? Once you're on the Zoom? Second thing like a lot of people aren't used to thinking hey, how does how's my camera look? How's my landline? How am I dressed once my backlog? How do I carry it? You also don't get the few minutes of interaction of building trust rapport with the stashes or gatekeeper to order that hallway conversation or even when the meeting ends, the walk back to the main area as you get face to face. So you can start realizing that you sort of realize it. Interesting. So how do I offset that? How do I improve my communication now on the zoo? How can I be more impactful? It's almost as as less swings if you will. So if you read when you realize that it becomes less forgiving your process, you start thinking how can I improve my communication? How can I improve every touchpoint with them? Whether it's email wherever else and the thing is what I've seen in the past for many reps who maybe more field reps or entrepreneurs or sell in the field below prospects. They had a good personality they can kind of offset some of these other areas. They weren't good at texting or email. It didn't really matter because they had good enough personality. They can kind of offset it short it gets to a hybrid model. It's a little less forgiving, or if it's all virtual. So when you realize that that's a certain sort of focus on how can I improve how I communicate and every single strategy, every single tactic every single video every single channel
that is a really good point. So there's a lot to unpack here that I want people to recognize. So the first thing that you mentioned was that it starts before it actually starts, right you come in they're judging you by how you look you dress. There's many different elements that is unbelievably important for people to recognize I do a ton of workshops and keynotes. And I always tell people, my speech begins long before I step on that stage. I mean people there they're looking at me depending on where I'm sitting where I'm standing as I'm being introduced, that is when it starts it starts from the moment they see you and I mean that sincerely. That's why it's so important to really warm up the room. And what I mean by that is everyone listening that does any kind of exercise. There's a way that you warm up your body before you doing strenuous weight bearing activities or you could potentially injure yourself. The same is true when it comes to us speaking whether it's a public speaking format, or whether it is us in a conversation with a prospect we have to warm up the room. And we have to be really good at doing that. There's ways that we can set people at ease. I love going and shaking as many hands as I possibly can in a room to try to figure out what's the pulse of the room. What are challenges that people are going through trying to figure out even little things like things that may or may not come up in my talk trying to figure out is there a particular sports team that this audience likes? Is there a particular book that this audience likes what what is it that's happening right now in their lives, and I try to incorporate that within my talk that all goes back to warming up the room. Now what's interesting, I appreciate what you said about the difference between in person and virtual is we get less opportunity to do that when it comes to zoom because now people are just clicking and then you know zoom or a team's or whatever virtual platform they're using pops up and then boom, there the person is and you're talking. We still need to figure out a way to warm up that room figuratively speaking we still have to figure out a way to build that rapport. Now, I always recommend you know, if you're talking to a type A full throttle choleric intensive personality, there's going to be less time to actually set them at ease because they're going to want to get to it right away. But there's ways to at least ease into that conversation. So I want to talk about that with you. So whether it is in person, or virtual, what are some of the different things that you do maybe some questions, maybe maybe some comments that you typically do you because you're a big framework person, Marcus, what are some of the things that people could take away just for simply warming something up and building that rapport?
It's perfect, right. So I think it's important to understand like, at the end people are buying from another human being. That's what breaks down to right they have not just trust obviously your company the solution, but they have to trust you as a person you're talking to. So you have to be able to connect with them not just beyond just a business level and I think mistake a lot of people make especially if they're No, not familiar having a process is like they jump on a zoom call. And they're like, how's it going? Good. Okay, cool. They can go right into it. And it's like, Jesus, like, you know, like, and they meet that person you're talking to, it's their other zoom calls. They may have a tension residue, for the last meeting still. So there's still kind of thinking about that. And there's no like bridge over right? And you become almost like robotics so as I say for the for the Zoom clinic in person is easier because as you're walking up how's your day going can kind of walk you can you just talk about whatever it is, you know, it's like, oh, you can share it all personally? Yeah, I just I just flew in this morning. It was really awesome. Like you know, how long you live in Chicago? Okay, that's very easy, kind of so until you get to the boardroom, right or to wherever you're meeting, right? On a zoom. You don't always get that chance. So you can keep it super simple. And I think a very simple framework is you can simply ask them how their day has been or how the week has been going. And then they'll probably say, Oh, how about you? I just share something personal about what you've been doing the q&a situation. So they say, oh, yeah, it's been a little crazy today. I've been like back to back to back, you know, like nonstop zoom meetings. You know, it's it's been crazy. How about you? They don't really care. They just kind of say that because I'm trying to eat ice. Right? So is that you say? Oh, yeah, cool. Me too. All right. Anyways, share something personal, make a human make it real, but I make a joke, right? If you can, if you're not funny, don't make jokes. Right? Like, if you're kind of funny. I think I'm funny and I really am so oh my god. Oh, cool. I totally get I know it's like back to back to back you came into the bathroom, right? Haha, whatever. Anyways, it's been a great day so far. I actually just got back. I took a break. walk my dog. It's been amazing out here. Just been outside take a little break from VOB inside behind the computer all day. Now it's very intentional because I share a story that I'm sharing the story in the mind of the prospect and probably already deal with which is, man I'm stuck indoors all day. Fresh air, some insurance human and almond story, something like that. It's really powerful. Now you honestly had something like that. Right? Or might be able to like you know for example if it's like you know if it's like a morning call like also Yeah, actually it's been a great morning so far. I just dropped my kid off of schools to it awesome to be on the walk to school because the weather's not too bad yet. Oh, awesome. And they have kids I love that resident knows because human very human connection. And then from there, that's probably the first piece is how just a little bit you don't, I would not spend like 15 minutes on that because if you only have 15 minutes in the car, they're just gonna call. You don't wanna waste that. So just this little bit, right, super simple. It's like something a little personal. How's your day been going? How's your week been going? Algeria has wrap it up. She definitely personally so nothing crazy dog goes a long tangent. So we short very simple and then kind of bridge into the next step, which is I call it in the interest rate statement, which is also a reminder why you're having a conversation, and then an agenda. All right, that's sometimes they did stupid. How long have they booked the meeting? They may not remember. So you might need to bring that back and interesting statement is being able to reestablish why you're even there to begin with. Right? So, you know, for example, that might sound something like awesome, so I know your time so I'm excited to chat with you if you don't have to remember or not but last week we spoke on the phone. I mentioned already working with a number other organizations such as you know, company A, B and C, helping them with different storytelling workshops to help their sales teams double the size of their revenue for the year. Alright, boom. That's like a very simple it's like, oh, clear benefit, some social proof. That's like 15 seconds that was not alone. And then go to the agenda for how the call goes. Right. And you can make it make it similar characters. Okay, so So what why did they just do just do a deep dive into your situation, Matt? So it makes you understand your business. And then based off that, I'd like your feedback recommendations, how potentially you know partner up and if it makes sense of your products up from there. Does that sound good? That sounds good. Easy peasy. Really.
I love that framework. So I just want to make sure that I heard you right. Did you say interest related statement? Interest creating statement, interest creating statement? Perfect, okay, interest creating statement. I love that. So there's so many different things that you're sharing with us that are really important, Marcus? So I want to talk about that. So you, you talked about sharing a story that relates to your prospect, just setting them at ease, which is so incredibly important, but you also talked about humor, and I want to validate what you said, humor can be dangerous. I never recommend people try to tell a certain joke especially they don't know the person everyone's humor is different. You don't you don't want to offend someone, especially if your joke falls flat. That is not a good way to start a meeting. So there is danger. There is a high risk there could potentially be a high reward too. But there I think there could be more of a higher risk when it comes to humor. That's when you know when I'm always doing coaching with politicians. I always say stay away from humor. You're not a comedian or it could very much backfire. on you. So you want to figure out a way to make them smile versus making them laugh. Sometimes a smiling can lead to laughter. I had a mentor many many years ago where he would always ask me Matt, how you doing? And I would say I'm doing good and he said we'll notify your face in meeting smile. Right smile, that if you do write good smile. So it's really getting them to the place of smiling. So not necessarily making them laugh, like how he is but but getting them to the place of smiling and I really appreciate what you said about people are on meetings constantly. So how do you actually pull them out of that state on just another meeting? Now, I'm not advocating that people say something crazy, but say something different enough to almost have a hook, like an attention grabbing type statement. So for instance based on what my business manager met mentor mentioned to me a while back about notifying my my face I wanted you to be smiling when we first started talking Marcus, and I was recently speaking out in the Portland area mark is from Portland. So I started to talk about different restaurants that are actually in Portland because my thought is more than likely, regardless of how many virtual meetings you have today. Someone's not going to mention those specific restaurants which will be a little bit different, right? And it wasn't me trying to be extremely funny. It was just me trying to get us both smiling to really build that connection that I love the Portland area. There was some incredible food there. So it's really building that connection. So we build the connection. And then we're sharing different stories which I appreciate you mentioned it too and then I really liked that interest creative statement. And really going into it on Alright, setting the tone for the meeting. I do not think enough people do that. And a lot of times people are booking meetings, you know far in advance, so they may completely forgot. Right? The agenda, the structure, how it's going to flow. So I really appreciate you mentioning that is there anything else that you would add to the structure of those sales calls?
Yeah, so I think I'll elaborate a few points too, right. So like if he does do the interest credit statements. I always think like when you when you get when you when you get a sales call for selling the first time, either earn the right to be there, right? They're choosing to give you time, so when you are when you are showing through social proof that you are able to multiple organizations, this establish incredibly, very quickly. Okay, this is actually worth my time this person seems to know what I'm talking about. And there's a very clear benefit of why I probably want so that's really, really important to how you structure because they're not like this isn't a nice person. Now that traditionally, yep, I shouldn't be here. I'll give a skellies 15 minutes, which is important. The next point I want to bring up as well is what's if it's virtual, like how do you show up? Right? How do you look? Right? It's face to face. It's even same thing I can save your city in the lobby, they come out like how like when they come out. Are you smooth and fluid to get up and shaking their hand and Are you finally dropping stuff all over the place? And I used to literally I literally back as a field rep I only engineered out exactly where everything's gonna go for in my suit pocket as to which hat was holding on for everything. And the reason I was really important was I knew when they came out Why did not want to do the fumble and drop and in which the confidence confidence. I wanted to be able to step right up handwriting and kill shake hands. You know, eyes open, mouth wide, bright smile ready to rock. I wanted to use them. But this is a good decision talk this person that I am selling to equal status. That's very important word and you take that same concept and you apply the zoo. So what your zoo is it's the same thing we'll talk about some of the nonverbal communication about you how things slip, how are you sending up? How are you looking at the camera and the camera? Are you showing confidence and conviction that you should be there and your value to them? Because you can do the same framework we just mentioned of having some personal report and then you go into the instrument statement. And then in general is probably covered next, but you don't sound the if you don't like tonality, the right the right confidence conviction. Then those see right through it. They'll be like this is gonna waste my time so you do all those things, but it's kind of like having a knife that can totally blunt it may impact the job done. If the ROI nice you could probably chop some measures kinda Right. Or you just make sure that knife is super sharp. What's that Zoom is on to a to flow and you establish increased credibility covenants with them once you guys are having a conversation.
I really appreciate you mentioning the confidence piece and playing out the scenario in your mind needs. It's interesting to hear you think about here's I'm gonna have my coffee here's how you know whether it's a briefcase or a backpack or whatever you're carrying. Here's how that's gonna look you know, they're coming in the lobby. You don't want to be fumbling you don't want things to be falling, you're gonna lose that confidence. I love that. But also the importance of being likable. I appreciate you mentioning that as well. That is so unbelievably important. likability is huge, absolutely huge. And for for those of you that follow my work, you know that I was in the political arena for quite some time, worked with many, many politicians. And what's interesting is to not underestimate the power of likability. There, there are tons of politicians, I mean, name a party on numerous numerous parties different sides of the aisle regardless of different policy initiatives. And they may not be the best politician they may not be the best candidate. But man, if they're likable, they absolutely have a chance to win. Never underestimate that. Yeah, sure
a story about this that absolutely shit does so. So I remember this years ago, and I was a sales manager and its sales or small sale or about a 20 sales reps had lost access. And in our region, we had about, like 30 or so other sales managers do when I was doing most of us smaller teams and I had like a group of crew that I was really close with, and other ones I kind of knew, and they didn't really know me that well. Now it was really interesting was when I was interviewed for Director role, I knew I was suddenly coming I was in Canada director over nine or 10 of these managers and out of the nine or 10 I knew a couple of them in the regionals are the markers and go after really like they knew the inside they knew like I was like they they knew I was all about, but for other people like they saw me from outside and they're like this guy is machine like he's robotic. He's probably a micromanager. He's super intent. There's no way he could get his results without being a micromanager. Like, there's there's something there's something off with him. He's too I was not likable, somebody other people. All right, because I frankly, hadn't taken the energy to build with them as people who are friends with you know, there are other other top performers so we kind of we got we got along. They're just like whatever. Anyways, so when I got promoted to be a director, I knew this to be the case, right? I'm like, okay, like I knew they perceive me a certain way. But the truth was, is they didn't know me. They didn't. They knew nothing about me. They did not work for me. Like they could talk to anyone my rhetorical performing them like this. guy's the best leader have ever had, but they weren't gonna do that. So they're gonna judge me based off only the awards I've won. And basically what they saw me doing the presentations I've given so far, this guy's a freaking machine you probably can imagine. Right? They just didn't think like he's too systematic for all of us. To nine like me, the other other seven are not so because I knew that. I'm like, my number one goal in the first 30 days is to gain their trust, established, I think like me. It's the same principle that we're talking about here, right? Because we understand that and people have a perception, well, how things are going to go. So the way I set it up and my goal number one, that means if the manager doesn't probably doesn't like or trust me yet, that means they're the team or something like that, which makes it very hard for me to do my job. So we Okay, so I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go on this like tour, if you will, for the first 90 days, or I'm gonna fly out to all ones. I think they don't like it the most in that order. Okay, I'm gonna go visit our teams, you know, one team a week. And I was like, Oh, the best thing to do, I can leverage them. And that's just how I sell myself. I'm gonna get them to sell me. Wow, so why so what I did was I flew to town so most time it's like, you know, when an address comes in town, it's a dog and pony show, right? So that's how these operations think. So instead, I'll have a sales rep pick me up, and I go on the field for half a day, and we sell business. There's a bunch of business, and then they're like, Oh, my God, he's actually a real dude in the car with a board is telling stories. I'm engaging. We're helping them win. And they're like, oh, that because I know, then they're gonna tell them to buddies on the team. Okay, and then that night, so there's
strategy in this right because
100 100% strategy identified with me weak points, and I want to do what I do could control that shrine. So that was really important so that so easily and deeper so even even that even that night, the first night, I'll have a team dinner. Right? We talk about work at all. We go out, we just gotta get it out. I'll do these different exercises to break the ice. And it'll be I'll do something like, you know, I'll do like, you know, like, let's go to the table or I'll say let's just share either a hero, a highlight or a hardship in your life, to share one share one story all start first. And I almost always chose a hardship and how I overcame it to show humility, to show growth, to show behaviors of values that I care about. And I knew that people that would rise to the top would care about those things. So I started breaking them down, right? And then of course, that the next day, like, I would do a training for all them, and I'll roleplay live with them. Like oh, my god is actually talking about again, I'm I'm breaking all the limiting beliefs about this game just so they actually liked me. And then when I had a one on ones that use the rats, most of them are like, Oh, this guy's say here to go through all my numbers and like beat me up. No, no, I sat them down. It just got to know them. I uncovered what their fears or their hopes, their dreams and desires and not to house and help them get there. So you do do all these parts. I need them to like me and trust me, right? So I share this with you because you can take these same type of cards we're talking about here you can apply to anything when in need to actually influence and sell what that's what really was solid, solid just influencing. You realized the faster gets someone to trust and like me, the more that we actually work together to help us work together to have a win win situation. Okay,
so there's so much to talk about here that I don't want leaders to miss out on. So for those of you listening, that you are a VP of sales, you are C suite, and you are so focused on facts and figures and numbers and metrics, which is all good. And Marcus talked about in the last episode. We touched on it today the importance of studying patterns, understanding numbers, that's all awesome. But I really appreciate what you said Marcus regarding hero highlight and hardship because now they're going to be sharing stories that are going to connect to you as the leader. This is so powerful about gaining trust. It's so powerful, and the numbers will come like if you have a team of people that are willing to literally bend over backwards for you. They're there they want to scale that mountain for to help you achieve your goals more than likely you build a tremendous amount of trust with them. And that really comes back to the storytelling piece. I challenge everyone listening to this episode to do that with your team. Go around the table and ask hero highlight hardship, try to figure out more about them. It's going to connect you to them more, they're gonna feel more endear to you and it will build trust. So thank you so much for sharing that I very much appreciate
it. That's right. You gotta win the hearts and minds of your people. If you can win the hearts and minds of your people. Then suddenly not not only will they do what's expected of them, you will see a percentage of the percentage of them will sort of apply discretionary effort that's ever beyond the scope of the job, to be honest, got the job description and that allows them to take the next level now you people reach and say hey, how can I help you Matt can I'll be okay hobbies is what about this initiative can help you take over and now before you know it you have your leaders and you're multiplying yourself. But that's how a liberal skill my team 85 reps 200 plus employees right and over multiple states, right because I focused on winning the hearts and minds of our people. I manage processes by lead the people and there's a big difference to that too.
I like that I like that one of the questions that I love asking because I think it's unique enough, but not as crazy like I want it to be crazy because I like you know being a little bit crazy but it's not. It's not overly crazy but it gets people to think is once I've had rapport with someone I would not do this with a prospect but with with someone that I've had an established relationship with. I love asking them. Are you excited about your life right now? Are you excited about your life or not? Because people aren't asked that it's a little bit different and makes them think and it's amazing some of the responses that I get because it's not a yes or no like, Hey, are you doing good? Yes, or I'm doing good, very superficial. But are you excited about your life right now? And more than likely something will come up that they would have never shared with anyone else in their day. And then it really directs the start of that conversation. I love doing that. I love doing that
I got so we're gonna monitor you might like this. You might even add to this to repertoire, right? So one of the things I did this is like you have to have some trust report. Otherwise it's not going to really be effective. So every six months I did what's called an individual development plan. Which is sat down with every single rep so had 110 Boys, I saw every single one for 30 minutes and we dug into, you know, because I live in their life. Where do they want to go? And where are they right now how we get there? Right? We build a plan to work towards that. But before we dove into it, I saw the one question is really simple. They sit down there, they're always like, I don't know he's nervous. It's something that always is nervous because it's just like, someone's a talent, whatever. So I'll be like looking in the eye. And this type of tone. I'd like so Matt Are you happy? That's it. Swipe, same concept, the exact same concept. And it's amazing because you see so my god, he Oh yeah. Hey, yeah he's sure and you started packing to so much so it can be with us. We're personnel maybe going through divorce. Maybe I feel Come on Come I've had addictions and stuff. So we now work towards actually helping them and provide them resources right. But the reality is, most people never pause to think, Am I happy? And what exactly is a holding back with happiness? And usually some internal they don't realize it quite yet. They think it's external to the internal right. But it's like what internally do I need to focus on now to actually be happy because I'm happy my own life. I'm gonna be a better husband, human being brother, father, sister, mother, pair, teacher, whatever.
So here's what's amazing about that. It doesn't matter where I am, where I'm speaking. It's the same objection that continues to come up is companies trying to figure out how to win the talent war. I hear it all the time. How do we retain top talent? How do we win the talent war? It doesn't matter what state I'm speaking in. This comes up all the time. And what's amazing Marcus is something as simple as a manager or a director, asking someone that they're responsible for leading, are you happy? It's amazing the response that they're gonna get? More than likely the person is probably going to pause a little bit longer than most questions to really figure out Wow, am I really being asked this question? They're going to feel more endear they're going to feel almost bewildered that someone cares enough. To ask that type of question to them. But they may open up and build an even more connection which will lead back to gaining trust what you talked about earlier, but it's going to start the process of building more connection to figure out there might be something happening under the surface that is really positioning them to lose, or you could position them to actually win that month. But it might not be that they don't necessarily want to do the work to get the sales that you need them to get. It could be something is happening that is really challenging in their life that you as a leader can really help them through. So I love that question. Are you happy? It's an amazing question.
What's interesting is like some of my favorite books is one of my favorites is probably the Stephen Covey, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Right. And one of the principles in there is seek to understand and I think it's something that it's so simple that we often just forget. And you know, it's like when we work with employees or human beings just like you me, we have we wake up we have problems, we have issues or kids get sick, we feel tired, fatigued, we want to throw things just happen. No one's perfect. And when you start treating like the actual human being a SERP seeking understand, these are realizing like to like being a good leader is actually not that hard. It is hard to be consistent with it. It's having that awareness of what you're doing, and how can you start being more consistent with it because what ends up happening is because I'm very systematic, systematic how I think I always say like, Oh, interesting. Why this one strategy this really seems to help with understanding people better. I'm like interesting. Like the tool I use the individual development plan. I just do consistent I can really understand how I deliver is most important thing, because now once I do consistently, I can really assess them out and then what's interesting is I start adding other things as well to really seek to understand which was I would call my my rest out of the blue every single quarter or tenants as Comala blue so I would see them face to face. I call them out of blue, pretend just to check in no agenda. How's it go? God what's what's up
their response to
you right? Yeah, I'm just yeah, this I'm just getting jobs back and grind. And as I tell you, I want to hear like, Well, hey, so I didn't want question for it's really important. What do you struggle with? The most I can help you with right now. Oh I'm not sure what it was striving to create what was pissing you off right now? And I'll just everytime I like something like No, I'm just glad you asked me I actually totally good. Thank you. Okay, cool. Well, you have my cell number Call Me neither. Okay, cool. Boom. But the thing is, most of us aren't willing to do that. Most leaders much rather be an armchair quarterback and sit in reactive. We started realizing these patterns and you are more aware about who you are. You can start employee assistance in places are dude and this was everything sales influence of everything. And we start doing that you become better and better, better over time. It used to have negative feedback loop. It doesn't mean it's perfect every time. But if you're a sales leader, and if you have 50% turnover and you could use that to say 30% 20% Use just reduce a lot of stress for you. This is how I do the region. I was running 40% Plus turnover to get to 70% my first year. Wow. Because I started covering these things. I started realizing one or system like one place to improve them right and as a covered feedback. I want people to quit and leave I'm like what can I do to fix this? So for example, one of the things they've been mentioned, hey, Marcus, like I want to leave because I'm not gonna develop to be to be the next role. So they weren't growing anymore. Sure they are two to three years and like I'm not growing and like I guess I'll just wait till I get promoted and the heat of that because see the future they can see beyond the day to day or week to week. So they're like, Well, we have this like a program called you know, captain's club, but it's pretty garbage. Interesting. I'm taking over. I took on a program completely redid it. I got a feedback from all the existing people that quit that program. I'm like, What do you hate? What do you love? What do you want to see and build a completely comprehensive whole new program to start develop people early on so that people are excited about that and that's our marketing and heavily. How much more effective Allah is it's our building and make it better over time. And in all audios, listen to the people and actually just care and the one best strategies for success is just carried. Don't be great sales, care about your prospect, wanted to have better sales teams care about your people, right? When you started thinking this way you actually just care. It's amazing how much innovation can come out when you start asking better questions.
I love that and I think a lot of that goes back to being intentional. As a leader you had to be intentional to make those 10 Minute Calls. But think about how, how important of an investment those 10 minute calls were. And what's amazing is like it doesn't need to be extremely, extremely. It doesn't need to suck the time out of us like 10 minutes for all these different people you're calling. It's not like you're spending hours and hours and hours with them. And I want people to recognize that recognize that one of the things that my mother who was an extremely strategic person, she was actually one of my strategic person, individuals I've ever met. She taught me the importance of writing thank you cards. What writing handwritten notes. Now what's amazing about this is it takes moments to do and depending on the prospect or the client that I'm working with, like I have different templates in my computer. I just kind of tweaked the different verbiage to make it more applicable to them. It takes me 30 seconds to do that. 30 seconds is incredible. I mean, do you know how few people get handwritten thank you cards in the mail. Now, I mean, it's about being intentional. So I love that you mentioned those 10 Minute Calls because it's not a ton of time, but it is an incredible investment. So thank you so much for sharing that I have to
add to this piece because this this is like so underutilized. Right. So I think it's the same thing, right? So I love the thank you notes. I love all that and the one of the things I think is super powerful and this will if you don't realize this, like think about like a one that's that's ever quit a job. If they're married, they go home, they can play their spouse. That's the first thing they do. Right? Oh, that was awful. My boss is on vacation. Oh my god bad probably whatever bow pressure from the bore pressure from whatever they complain. All right. And what happens is a spouse says okay, yeah, you know, it's terrible. Eventually, when the person wants to quit, they're like, I want to quit like you should quit. Because you've been talking about, right? I knew that. So the most important things I did early on as a sales leader was simply this. So what I did was I had all their home address for all for all my reps, right? And this is as a director as well. I had the names of all the spouses, I would write a note to the spouse every single quarter from me, I put their name on it. And in that note, I would address and recognize all the behaviors that I saw and want them to be aware of. They'd be like, you know, like, you know, Suzy, like, you know, like, you know, Marcus have an incredible job you know, incredible job this others corner like us, so he helped me so much to coaching these two new wraps. Like he went above and beyond and I just want to say thank you so much for your support to him. And I know sometimes you call late at night, and I know he can maneuver through family and kids so it means a lot to me. But so say thank you for your support and healthy ad from me. Here's my cell number. Here's my email. Call me anytime. Why arrows every single quarter without fail to their spouses. Right. So now what happens is spouses look that's interesting. Here's this like, handwritten notes only for the envelope. My hand is terrible. So the inside like the I type of document is terrible, but it's like actually a handwritten like deal to the spouses. Name. They get that they're like, whoa, this guy is like, this is your boss, and they had never met me. Interesting, right? And what's really funny is I'll get these random texts from spouses like thank you so much for that note. What if they didn't say anything? When I would have like an awards dinner? They don't come they come up to me like Oh, I'm so nice. Thank you so much. I know you were like, last last week. I literally had spouses telling me that like so. You know, Kurt never talks about what happens in the work at all do us. So every time we get those those, those letters from you, I gather family we read together to celebrate that. I'm like, Wow, that's amazing. Right? So this is how you sort of win the hearts and minds your people. But more importantly, you're just serving that mean, you're just caring. And you just taking that intentionality, but the issue is fuel they focus on is the number. We focus the number by itself. Yes, you can make some incremental changes when you focus on the people and then you build systems around to make new things happen, like I just discussed. Now you start with the hearts and minds of the people. And you can replicate over and over and then over time you start adding more things to make better and better. And when you do that consistently, you start having a machine a factory of superstars that keeps producing regardless because you have a system that's replicatable.
That is incredible. And my gas is the individuals that received those letters. That is the first and unfortunate pie the last time that that happened. So I want people to recognize this for everyone listening that's complaining about bringing in top talent or keeping top talent in your company. Right. They're complaining about there's a revolving door and you know, they're going to other companies like that is a lot of what's happening right now. I want to recognize this think about someone go into their significant other and saying I want to quit and that person is saying Oh good. I think you should verse simply saying why? What's going on what why? Because more than likely the individual that received numerous handwritten notes or the then the info from you they're probably going to think why what's going on because they like you because it's the first time that they received that so are very much appreciate. He made that is an incredible value add for sure. One of the things I do want to dive into Marcus because I did promise you that we'd get to it. So I legitimately believe this was one of the best sales books I've ever read at the six figure sales secrets. I appreciate you putting this into the world. I remember when you mentioned that you were going to start writing this and I was extremely excited to get my hands on this just knowing all the different things that I've learned from you over the last couple of years. And there's one thing in the book that you talked about that well there's many things that you talked about that I was fascinated by but one of the things that I think was very helpful to me was your your whole mindset when it comes to voicemails. So sales reps hate leaving voicemails, and more than likely it's because you know in the book you mentioned that you literally got a 1% callback rate if you were lucky. That's the reason why sales reps hate leaving voicemails, they hate the failure rate with it. Right so can you talk about what you did? Regarding voice now again, I want people to recognize this because this is studying patterns. You studied a pattern to figure out hey, if I send a letter to someone spouse, more than likely they're going to have my back when that person wants to quit. That's understanding what's happening. That's being intentional understanding patterns. You recognize, hey, I'm getting a 1% callback rate. Hey, someone left me a voicemail. You actually have a story in the book we talked about one day you received the voicemail and you called the guy back right away thinking yourself wait a second. Why did I call him back? This is a sales call. How did that happened? It's being intentional studying pattern so can you talk about the best way for people to get get their voicemails called back?
Yeah, so immediately like they understand what why is it so critical? Right? So this everything we've talked about so far ties into having a very clear feedback loop, do something something happens good or bad, analyze a feedback, iterate, try again, you rinse and repeat to get a desired result. And the mistake many people make is they don't pay attention to the feedback loop. So for example, Earl Yan Yong Yong salesperson every weekend to try to drown away my pain and sorrows bended binge drink every single weekend Friday, Saturday. Guar crazy blackout drunk, feel terrible lingering effects for multiple days, eat terrible food, feel bad about myself and go to money. Try start and try be a good salesperson rinse and repeat for yours. Feedback Loop Oh, hey, wait a minute. When I drink a lot of alcohol and binge drink I make bad decisions I try eat way more. I should I eat greasy food. I feel awful for days. I'm not clear in the mind. Solution stopped drinking. Right so now stop drinking. What happens? Oh, clarity, feel better, more energy, more focus time on weekends not to do what do things actually care about. So talent will actually love versus people don't care about a bar. So we start think about the feedback loop in every part of your life. You start getting better across time. And this applies to voicemails as well. And the thing is, we also realized to the voicemails was interesting, like, if you a good connect rate is 10% meaning if you make say 10 phone calls, you know probably one's going to answer to shit decision maker that's not bad. So if you can make 100 That's 10 and a student mean the other 90 are qualified prospects. That's 90 people that did not answer, which means they're not those opportunities. It doesn't mean they're a bad prospect. It just means they have an answer. So I can I can leave a voicemail or I can do nothing. early on. The mistake I made was I had a bad voicemail. So I leave a voicemail, no callback, baby at best. I get 1% So naturally, most people like That's why doesn't work right. So in the book, I share the story about how I got someone call me back and when they call me back, I'm like, how did they give me a call back while like number one in psycho salesperson. Interesting. Number two is ready to shorten brief and concise and know what to do maybe curious. Like, Oh, that's interesting. Like, will this work for me? I don't know. Right? But I know that feedback loop was this guy left me a voicemail. I called him back. Right? That's the desired outcome I personally want how can I get the same desired outcome success leaves clues. So I started to test test test and right out new scripting, testing it out changed from what I said to how I said it and it got to the point when when I came up with it so refined over time we eventually got to the US Senate it was like hold on for me. I will leave 1010 voicemails and I'll get like six or seven call me back. And as I got better on actually how to be on the phones, I will start looking at 90% of those. Wow. So now I realized I'm like shoot I don't think you make more calls. I see better voicemails already normally voicemails, I see a better voicemail, right? Like just because the tool you have is not getting results you want doesn't mean it's a bad tool. D or you you did it right. If I tried to hammer a nail with the backing of a hammer the claw and maybe get some results or I could change my grip change I hold and get a better desired result. That's how I started thinking that's why I came up with a voicemail and I'll share it right back because very, very simple. Right? You know, it's it's literally that it's like, Hey, Matt, it's Marcus. I'm calling reference to ABC Company. Please give me a call back myself. 5411234567 again, 5411234567 Thanks. Click. That's it. Very, very simple, right. And ABC Company is just a current customers you already work with. That's it, right? Ideally in a similar size. And because of my tonality, it's firm. It's authoritative. It's not salesy. When people get that voicemail, the interesting that is maybe a 10 second voicemail transcribed easy on the phone they can see very quickly if they have software to translate to an email they can see like interesting with cell about I don't know people have FOMO as a human nature as a human behavior. We have we fear of missing out. So what's this all about? I'm curious now. And curiosity is one of the greatest drivers of action. So you understand that you sort of realize it interesting. When people get curious, they want they want them I'll have it just like kids around Christmas. They don't know what's in the present. They're super puppets and they're excited. They can't wait to try to look at the socket is so curious. And then once they have it, they plan for the for one day and it's not interesting anymore. Right? We can leverage the same concept of FOMO curiosity into voicemail just like this. He started doing consistently, you'll start getting calls back. The mistake a lot people make is they say Marcus, I did a one time didn't work. Oh course. How many times have you done a workout one time guys six pack never happened. Right? So you start focusing on two consistently. You do 100 Time verbatim. Same way, same tonality, you'll start seeing results. And then you're you know I'll do it number two, which is how I answer when they call me. Right. Probably get to the problem right? This happened yesterday. So I got a I got on a coaching call my students that would they're like, I'm getting like five to 10 calls a day now. It's incredible. It's never happened before. But I'd like I'm only booking like one out of five or 10 So let me see. Let me see what a shame. Made some tiny tweaks. That's all.
I'd see. I love the whole idea of looking at different patterns, especially in human behavior. You mentioned the transcript. I want people to recognize that because when I get a voicemail and I see the transcript, and it's like two paragraphs long, the first thing in my mind is oh my gosh, what in the world is this about? That's my reaction. When I see the short one, I think wow, that person was really thoughtful that they didn't blow up my phone with all it's really really important. I appreciate that element of the feedback loop. So I'm looking at your book right now that all the different scripts that you have, I highly highly recommend people check those out. It is gorged with different scripts, different techniques, different tricks, different secrets. It's absolutely incredible, highly, highly recommended. And Marcus, thank you again for everything that you mentioned today. I got three big takeaways from our conversation that I want to highlight. I know a lot of people listened and got others out other different aspects out of it. But the top three takeaways for me personally, are going to be talking about sharing his story in the beginning really focusing on sharing a personal story that relates to the prospect we're talking about virtual calls the importance of setting them at ease, what kind of story can you share to really make that connection? I also really like you mentioning playing out the scenario in your mind and being very specific about it. When this person walks out. I'm gonna have my coffee in my left hand so that I could shake their hand right away. I'm gonna have my briefcase here so when they come out on that rummaging through papers and they fall on the floor, it's gonna it's gonna really bring down confidence. I appreciate you mentioned that playing out the scenario in your mind. But the third piece that I loved was us as leaders being intentional asking questions to really gain trust you had mentioned having people talk about a hero a highlight or a hardship I love it. For everyone out there listening that's a leader that leads sales teams imagine what can happen by just asking a question like that asking you a question like Marcus mentioned, are you happy? It there's so many things that are going to come out that you didn't even realize to make that connection. So Marcus I very much appreciate your time. Thank you. Again, if anyone wants to get more information on what you do, they want to