Surge of Storytelling on LinkedIn | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

SUMMARY: In this episode, Atlas Katari and Matt Zaun talk about how to get your mind in a creative state in order to have a surge of storytelling on LinkedIn.

ATLAS KATARI BIO: Atlas is the owner of Katari Creative, which is a B2B creative marketing agency that focuses on bold branding - complete with your stories.

For more info, check Atlas here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/atlaskatari/
https://figureoutfreelancing.substack.com/

OTHER LINKEDIN EPISODES:

How to Connect the Dots on LinkedIn with Rachel Simon |
https://storieswithtraction.buzzsprout.com/1781130/9644102-how-to-connect-the-dots-on-linkedin-with-rachel-simon

The Art of Casual Conversations on LinkedIn with Dan Mott | https://storieswithtraction.buzzsprout.com/1781130/10145561-the-art-of-casual-conversations-on-linkedin-with-dan-mott

Personal Branding with Michelle Griffin | https://storieswithtraction.buzzsprout.com/1781130/10185446-personal-branding-with-michelle-griffin

MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun here:
https://youtu.be/pflQtzgP7X0
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattzaun/

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors

This is the episode that you have been asking for. So for those of you who listen to the stories with traction podcast, you know that I've done numerous podcast episodes regarding telling your story on LinkedIn. And there have been three in particular that I've gotten a lot of questions about. The first one was how to connect the dots on LinkedIn with Rachael Simon, where we talked about the importance of LinkedIn and connecting your stories on LinkedIn. Then we talked about the art of casual conversations on LinkedIn with Dan Mott about how to utilize conversations and have intertwined stories within these conversations for networking. And then we had personal branding with Michelle Griffin or talked about the importance of establishing a personal brand and utilizing personal stories with business themes that are twined. With all of these episodes, there have been a lot of questions, a lot of messages with okay, you understand the importance but how do you really come about it from a creative angle? That's why I'm so excited for this podcast episode because today I'm joined by Atlas, Qatari, who's the owner of Qatari creative, which is a b2b creative marketing agency that focuses on bold branding, and utilizes many aspects of storytelling that we've gone over to have that bold branding. So I'm so excited for today's conversation. Welcome to the show, Atlas.
Hello. You're really setting me up here to be a killer episode.
I'm I'm excited because I think your content is literally off the charts when it comes to creativity when it comes to engagement. And I mean as you know people pay a lot for eyeballs on screens they pay a lot for attention. And what was interesting to me is you have content that is so engaging, that it really stops the scroll. So I feel like what you have people very much envy what you have and what you bring to the table. So I want to dive into that into it a lot regarding your processes creativity, how you're able to go through an experience, capture the story and then share it with your audience. I think that's gonna be extremely valuable to listeners today. So I'm excited. Awesome. So this will be really cool to unpacked and go with. I want to always start with the important so I as I had mentioned in the beginning, we've done some episodes regarding the importance of LinkedIn, just getting people in the mindset of not viewing LinkedIn as a glorified resume site but really a networking tool instead of a powerful networking medium. So let's let's briefly talk about the importance. And then we'll dive into more steps on how people can capitalize on that on that important. So can you talk to us a little bit about the importance with what you've seen within your business within your life with engaging on LinkedIn Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, I think the easiest way to view it, at least from my perspective is the return on investment I suppose. Like I consider myself to be very lazy when it comes to owning my business and marketing in general. So the best return that I can get for the time that I put in will is absolutely going to be what I focus on, and that's LinkedIn.
So basically, you are focusing on LinkedIn versus other platforms like there's a million things people could do from a marketing perspective, but you've really seen a lot of results on LinkedIn versus other social media platforms. Is that correct? Yeah, absolutely.
I started freelancing on like Facebook groups and stuff like trying to find work through those. And while there are absolutely strategies that still work on Facebook, for what I was doing and the time I was putting in, if I put that all into LinkedIn, I got such better results. And so for me, for my business, I don't need to do really more than LinkedIn. And, you know, just being a person, you know, so sure with people in real life too.
Sure. No, I completely relate to that. Because for me a few years ago, I started sharing stories on LinkedIn sharing experiences, different content pieces, and I literally was blown away by the response and also the ROI. It was incredible and back to your point on focusing on Okay, here's where here's the minimum that can be done for maximum results. I was doing a lot of stuff on Facebook, I was doing a lot of paid advertisements on Facebook, which it paled in comparison to the results that I was getting with free organic reach on LinkedIn. That's why I really started focusing on LinkedIn because of how much of a game changer it was. And I think a lot of people listening to this are of the mindset of importance, they recognize the importance. So now what do you do with them? So I want to talk about the shift from theory to practicality. So there's a lot of people out there, okay, they bought into the importance of LinkedIn. LinkedIn was purchased by Microsoft, Microsoft has said they're going to heavily invest in this LinkedIn isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. It's only going to become a bigger player in the marketing space. So they bought into the idea of importance. So how do they take it from theory to practicality and what would someone do once they recognize this is important? Where do they go from there?
Yeah, definitely. So like, this is something I teach a lot of my mentees and my coaching clients, because there is so much content out there, just screaming at you, essentially to like, start doing things on LinkedIn. I think the best place to start is to just understand why you even want to like be on LinkedIn and if your audience is there, so it's a little bit of like validation. It's a little bit of like, observing what the culture is on LinkedIn, and goal setting to so like we both mentioned ROI. I think it's really important to mention our allies and always money. It's not always revenue. Return on Investment could just be time saved. You know, the more time that I say online by doing LinkedIn as opposed to doing a bunch of other platforms is more time I can spend outside or spend reading a book, you know. So once you've got your goal set, I'd say from there to start to pay attention, like really like spend a week, two weeks depending on how much time you can give it looking around on LinkedIn, like trying to find your ideal audience. Where are they on LinkedIn? Can you engage with them? Can you invite them and if you can't, then you know now you have more informed questions to ask.
So you said something I really want to highlight on because the I want people to understand the magnitude of what you just said. You said sometimes ROI isn't always money. So this is so unbelievably important because well, you're saying that I immediately thought back to the days that I was doing heavy in person networking. So there was a time this was part of COVID where I was doing three to four networking events a week. So literally what I did was I worked my normal day, my duties or responsibilities from the business perspective. Then I would go to a networking event. I'd be there for hours networking, shaking hands, you know, there's tons of beef and beer type of networking events out I mean, pick a chamber I mean, they all have different events. Yeah, spending hours, then coming home, emailing everyone that I met, and it was such a labor intensive, like perspective regarding time. That it was it's really tough like I have I have young kids, it's really tough to be out there three, four nights a week with networking. And then once I discovered the power of LinkedIn, it was like networking on steroids to me it was so it 10x My ability to connect with people how conversations understand different elements, my target market on such a deeper level, that that ROI now, indirectly, it paid off in major dividends regarding finances, but that wasn't that wasn't at first it was the ROI you're talking about. It was hey, instead of spending 10 hours a week with in person networking, what if I spent a couple hours a week on LinkedIn content and I'm getting the exact same if not better results. So to me, that's a huge ROI. Like that's a huge quality of life. And Chris, I want people to recognize what you said that ROI doesn't necessarily need to just be finances. It could be timing, and she was just here so I really appreciate you mentioning that for sure. Yeah.
And further on, you know, in person networking events and putting all the time and do it. You know, something I realized really early on is the time spent traveling is part of that time spent networking and going to their those events and then going right back to your computer once you get back to you know all those people like at some point a grind starts to just feel inauthentic. And like authenticity is everything when it comes to being a business owner being a marketer be anyone who puts content out online. Yeah, at least for me, authenticity is huge.
You met through like a point and then also with that authenticity, sometimes people need to see authentic vulnerable posts numerous times before they make a decision. So even like now there are times I still do some in person networking, like it's not at all what I used to do, but having a connection with that person and then them seeing my content over and over and over again. It's going to build more of that relationship. They're going to understand who I am what I'm about where I learned it on a much, much deeper level with the stories that I'm sharing, and then they may want to do business with me in the months ahead. So I'm not not downplaying in person networking, I think it's very important. But I also think that LinkedIn will supercharge it, if not enhance it. And that's really important for people to recognize. So we talked about Sargon
Oh, I was just going to say I absolutely agree. People have reached out to me that I know I met in person, and they reached out to me you know, months after meeting me because they see me on LinkedIn because they see me as doing so well on LinkedIn. And people you know now in person reaching out asking for help with LinkedIn because of how much they see me on LinkedIn. So you know, if anything, it's just a way for you to reach the people that you are already reaching at a different level or a different place than you know when they're like turned on in business mode and that in person networking event.
Sure, sure. That's a really, really good point. So we talked about the importance. I think a lot of people listening they understand the importance we've talked about taking it from theory to practicality or understanding your why what is truly the return on investment. So let's get down to more in the weeds of content creation. I think that's something that a lot of people have had a lot of questions on, and they're really interested in that. So you recently posted something that I found fascinating, and it's more of like a systematic approach to it. So I want to dive into this a little bit more, and I want to expand on the points that you had talked about. So you mentioned stop thinking, start talking and then brain dump, connect the lessons, prioritize and get started, and authenticity over perfection. So I want to kind of go into that. So let's talk about stop thinking and start talking. I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing this is from a creative perspective to really turn off the nose in our mind and allow creativity to flow. And I think a lot of times it's really hard for business leaders to do. So can you dive into a little bit more about what stop thinking and start talking looks like to you?
Yeah, definitely. So I started as a freelance writer and something that is very, very common for a lot of writers is self editing while writing. So you know, that kind of write a sentence write a sentence. Oh, no, delete that first sentence. Oh, well, maybe keep it we'll look at it later up. No, I want to delete this word. That kind of thinking. It's just disruptive. It's disruptive to your creative process. It's like it's like an annoying kid always interrupting you with a question while you're trying to just like get one thought out. You know, that's sort of how I view myself editor and why now I have to remind myself, stop thinking about it and just start doing the thing. In terms of what start talking means for me, in reference to this post, it was you know, the, my creative process in dealing with overwhelm. So when I feel like I have way too much stuff to do, and like we can put this through the lens of content creation if you know you have way too many ideas to share and how do you start? Start talking to me just means start looking at what people are talking about online or talking to some of your peers or maybe even a client because the conversations that come up through doing that, then can inform you maybe what people are actually interested in learning about or what kind of content they're seeking.
Alright, so I while you're talking I'm actually I'm laughing and the reason I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you because I'm a writer as well. I love writing I love copywriting I'm kind of sick in a nature of like, I get entertainment from copywriting. Like instead of watching a movie to me, I could sit down at night and just copyright all night. I love it right but it was a process and there were times where I'd go back and edit and I change and it's really a mindset of defeat and doubt and not allowing our creative juices truly surge and for me personally, it wasn't until I really started doing improv comedy, that everything changed for me like it literally changed all of my writing aspect of my storytelling aspect and one of the most recognizable exercises or games if you will in the improv comedy spaces. Yes and and yes, but and for people listening that aren't familiar with Yes. And it's a very simple exercise where you basically are with a partner or you're in a group and someone throws out an idea. And basically you take the idea and you keep saying yes and and you expand on that idea. So someone says, you know your next networking event not only coffee will serve me sir, but Howard Schultz will serve that coffee. Okay, so even if it's a ridiculous thought like that someone might take that and say yes, and he could tell us how it took Starbucks from five locations to the $30,000 today. Yes. And we could talk about company culture. Yes, and we could talk about why green was practiced the main color of Starbucks, so you keep going back and forth regarding Yes. And and then you switch it and it's yes, but were you someone throws out a realistic idea. Something as simple as I'm going to build shells in my home, and someone says yes, but those shells could fall and someone could get hurt. Yes, but I can put pictures on them and make sure that it's sturdy so I can see these pictures and they keep going back and forth regarding Yes, but and for me personally, it wasn't until I adopted a mindset of Yes. And when it came to my content creation that a lot of the creativity for me it was turned on because the whole premise of Yes, and it's a philosophical mindset if this is true, what else is true? You know, so for people listening, you know, if you really good at employee retention, if that's true, what else is true? So you probably have good team dynamics, you are investing in your people, you know, that's true, what else is true? And when I saw this whole idea of stop thinking and start talking, there's so much to be said about allowing creativity to thrive in the workplace and I feel like so many business leaders want all these systems and processes and formulas and all their structure, and its surrounding creativity. So I really appreciate what you're you're talking about here. And then you went on to talk about brain dump. So I want to talk a little bit about your idea behind brain dumps because I think it's so important. So once you bought into this idea of okay, I'm just going to start I'm not going to edit I'm going to get my ideas out. What does a brain dump session look like to you personally? Um,
it depends on what is on my mind at the time even what conversations I was having recently, just like I was just talking about, you know, things that I've heard throughout the week, like there's so many sources I've identified for ideas for content and honestly sources of overwhelm, too, that go into this brain dump. And for me, what my business coach who taught me this, you know, years ago, taught me was literally just turn your brain off and dump everything you can onto a piece of paper, I specify and I emphasize in that post to do it by hand, because there is proven, you know, scientific connection between the movement of handwriting like the fit, you know, the physical movement of doing it, and memory retention, and probably other you know, neurons and synapses kind of going off while you're doing the the handwriting stuff so I'm a big believer in when necessary, you know, make things analog put it down literally on paper so that it's out of your head and it's somewhere else.
Yeah, I really liked that getting it out of your head putting it somewhere else to paint the picture for people for me regarding brain dump because I really like what you said about just just do right like don't turn off the negative thoughts on restriction. Just do this to me Nike, just do it. Exactly. Do it, do it. So I do this on planes all the time, like my brain dumping calm. I spend a lot of time on planes flying to workshops that I do and what I'll do is I'll start listening to music, so I'll listen to music that really gets me in a creative mindset. And I'll sit there I'll listen. Even if it's a long flight, I may listen for an hour, and then I turn off the music and I pull out paper I pull out a pen. Sometimes I'm just using my cell phone what I started doing all this brain dump or unlike just putting out stories, stories from the last week stories from the last month stories, and just I'm putting all these different experiences and stories out. And then I go back and I'm like, Alright, I could be using this story on a client call. I should be using this story in my upcoming workshop. Right? I should be using this story on my LinkedIn content. But I wouldn't know that unless I do the brain dump. And I think a lot of people in the business space. They don't they don't give enough time for creativity. And I don't know what the disconnect is. I don't know if they don't see the value in it. They think it's silly. They think it's weird, because some people may think, Oh, the BSN that I just talked about might be weird. Some people may think, you know, take what you're saying and say Oh, well that just sounds weird. Yeah, it's okay to get your mind in a creative state to have this brain dump. So what would you say to clients that are a little bit hesitant with some of the strategies you give them regarding brain dumping?
Well, if I can be honest, the the emphasis on focusing on like practicality and systems and kind of what you were talking about earlier with Yes, and I think and correct me if I'm wrong. Here, but my assumption is that it helped you tap into your intuition. A bit more helps tap into your real inner truth, which sometimes and maybe not even sometimes, maybe all the time. We're Self Editing we are centering ourselves because we have an idea of what people want from us a lot from our content or want to hear. And that honestly that idea of what you think people want is never accurate to what the reality is. And that's why my my my advice starts with you know, just shut up, stop, like stop assuming things. Stop thinking and get out there and have conversations just go talk to people to actually find the proof that this content is warranted No, go find the conversation that prompts the story. You know, like, sometimes I you know, stories can be exemplified in a way because you know, your perspective changes how you took it a lesson. You know, someone listening to this podcast that works in marketing versus someone who listens to this podcast, who works in manufacturing are going to take totally different things from even the same sentence show I think. I think what what is really the focus is understanding that creativity isn't valued in a western society. And systems can't support something that is so subjective, as creativity, so like your process is going to be different from my process. It's going to be different from the next person's process. Like I don't listen to music at all when I think because it'll distract me. But you do that to get into the creative, you know, the creative mindset. So I think yeah, at the end of the day, like just just learning a bit more maybe about non western approaches to creativity business, and honestly like mental clarity, that kind of stuff can can really help inform ways you can challenge yourself when it comes to your assumptions about what has to be or what content you have to create, or what you have to do on LinkedIn because you know, all of these white people told me to
I know that you said the West doesn't value creativity, at least putting our minds in a creative state. I think that's very, it's very interesting, but it's based on my experience. I would agree with that, unfortunately. And it's one I've been the most creative, that I'm learning different things that my audience wants. You brought up a really good point that sometimes we'll put something out there, that maybe we think we'll do okay, and it does phenomenal. And we're like blown away and we're like, where did that come from?
That's absolutely what exactly happened. With that post for referencing that procrastination post. I wrote that on a whim, I created that Canva PDF in like two seconds, I used a template like and maybe changed around some colors, because the idea just came to me because I was doing the brain dump and I was feeling the overwhelm in that moment, or the copy really quickly. And I thought I think I posted it on like, noon on a Friday, which if you don't know a lot about LinkedIn, or you know, posting times and stuff is a really weird time to post lunch time on a Friday and my lunchtime of all else being in Alaska, that's four hours behind the East Coast, you know, much further behind the you know, GMT and Europe and stuff. So, realistically, that was closer to like 4pm Eastern Standard Time.
So, which is like the worst time to first ever Yeah, it's Yeah, interesting. Interesting. So hopefully, people recognize the importance of getting the getting into a creative state. So once you're in this creative state, you've had this brain dump. Now you're getting all these stories out, you're getting all these ideas out, how do you go back and connect the lessons
that this is one of the hardest parts because this is what separates a, you know, a copywriter who's writing really good posts and maybe someone who is used to creating ads or something, you know, there is the storytelling aspect, the creativity aspect. Really, what it comes down to is your first two lines of the post. So your hook and then really like the final two lines, which is the lesson those those two point points and then of course everything else in between has to connect them is the biggest piece of content. It's the it's the biggest part of content creation process that takes the longest it's like the most impactful and therefore it's like takes the longest to you know, really understand and get and it's hard to put into words even now, how to do it. Because again, kind of looping back around like my perspective of of a interaction or a story. And my lesson drawn from that is gonna be so different from someone else's. And so, this is where the that authenticity comes into play. This is where like, you know, personal branding comes into play it. You have to figure out like what, three or four lessons you really want to instill in people, or three or four things you want to be known for, or three or four things you can reiterate on constantly. And that's really what it comes down two. So when I'm thinking about a lesson and a piece of content, or when I'm thinking about, what what point am I trying to make here, I can always come back to those three or four things. And so for me, it's challenging traditional freelancing setups and styles of advice. I love dispelling myths, I love having unpopular opinions, that sort of stuff. So that's a big one for me is just challenging those common beliefs. My process of you know, becoming a better business owner and becoming a better Freelancer in terms of what that means for me. So that kind of links into the first one because better for me doesn't mean making more money. It means working less sure. And then you know, finally just like really good content tips and and things that people can actually apply. Like that post we have been talking about is like it was literally step by step how to do it, you know, so that kind of applicable content rather than more theoretical if the other two is really impactful and important to so long winded way to say that lesson, those final two lines, those are the most important parts and they should be pretty steadily similar, I'd say because that realistically, like consistency is what creates a brand.
Sure. Yeah. And I think we just said and correct me if I'm wrong. It really ties back into what you said before about your why because you had mentioned three to four things that you really want to be known for. I think that can really tie back into why are you even there in the first place. What's your why what's your drive behind it? And you had mentioned parts of your why I do the same thing like there there are certain reasons why I engage and share stories on LinkedIn is is the lesson connecting to the story that's really pushing out my why I think it's really important. So we talked also about prioritizing, you mentioned Authenticity. Authenticity is absolutely huge. I believe over perfection. This was a huge, huge, huge mistake that I made for years. I have been a perfectionist for quite some time. It could be quick like mentally like it could be it could be mentally paralyzing, because like there's so much anxiety that it wasn't until I flipped and I was like no I don't need to have this perfect persona. It's ridiculous. It's not based in reality. There's no such thing as a perfect person. It wasn't till I started sharing my mistakes, different blunders that I've made where people started to connect more and that authenticity was really important. So I'm gonna talk about authenticity from from a content perspective if you're if you're willing and able just because I feel like especially in the business world where people have been taught to create this identity management of their perfect people. Yeah, they might hear okay, maybe I gotta be authentic. That sounds cute, but in reality, it's so powerful. It's such a powerful human connector. What have you seen with people that make the shift from I'm perfect, let me show you how awesome I am in business to actually being authentic.
Yeah, definitely. I think that authenticity is one of those buzzwords that's getting thrown around more often and marketing world and content creation world and I think kind of looping it back around to what we were talking about with like intuition and yes, seeing and authenticity really is just kind of that it's pulling from your intuition. It's maybe not knowing what will come from this decision that you're making or this piece of content that you're posting. But doing it anyway because you I don't know. Just feel like it might work or you have this this idea. And you just act on it you know? Sure, I think further as well, you know, I hesitated to say to put your those content lessons as like part of your why or part of that first initial looking out into LinkedIn to figure out maybe what kind of conversations to have because you don't wanna put yourself into a box either. Not at least too early. Putting yourself into a box is exactly what I was advising, you know, in terms of like having three or four things to be consistently known for, but be open to that adapting to because as you get more information and as you have more conversations, as you realize people are like okay, like people like hearing about content creation Sure, but they like hearing more about how to actually do it, then like the importance of it. So then you can adapt that kind of lesson to be known for to be more even more specific or or to be totally different. So I think intuition, authenticity, and really just like trusting yourself is a skill. And it comes from taking risks, and learning how to challenge your your own beliefs like that perfectionism, like that self doubt like that self editor, learning how to challenge that can come from mindfulness, it can come and go into therapy. And honestly looking back around to my perspective on the western societies influence on marketing and work culture, looking out to non white perspectives of what work life balance should look like, what common creations will look like, etc. I think it's very important to open yourself up to diverse perspectives that that you may disagree with and may disagree really like a lot with you may really, like actually hate a person because of what they're saying and like Why Why does that? You know, being able to question yourself is huge. Yeah,
so dive into not boxing yourself in or at least allowing your mind to be open to adapt to grow as a person. There was a huge wake up call for me from a content creation perspective recently. So when I, when I do a lot of storytelling, deep dives, it's heavily focused on culture on marketing on sales. And it wasn't until I started talking about how companies help organizations nonprofits, that I realized that my audience is very interested in corporate social responsibility, how to do it, what it means why it's important, the how behind it. I never would have known that. If it wasn't for me putting different things out and getting an overwhelming response from people asking, Okay, how do you implement corporate social responsibility? And then how do you utilize a whole story strategy behind it to really focus on our why so I think it's exactly what you're saying about not boxing yourself and like, yes, maybe niching down and focusing on different things but not being so rigid with that, that we're closing our minds off. to something that we could be missing and I would have, I would have missed that. So I appreciate you mentioning that. I do want to go a little bit further regarding the Kinect the lessons you had mentioned that it is very difficult to put into words sometimes because you we create these muscles and I want to talk about that you talk a lot about content brain and what content brain is. You I just want to read this because I think this is so powerful, and then I want to unpack it. Regarding content. Brian, you said that creating content feels selfish at first it doesn't start as a creative process it doesn't come from inspiration or drive to create. It doesn't even come from wanting to share your ideas at first creating content as a chore, not because you don't want to do it up because you don't understand the value of it, but because the process of creating content builds a muscle. You mentioned the first started creating content on LinkedIn. You weren't necessarily inspired, but you started the process of doing that. And then eventually, you understood how to do this on a much deeper level and you created what you referred to as content brain and your your your please inspiring people to get in that position. So I'm going to talk more about that about the importance of creating this muscle and then ultimately encouragement from all once you create this muscle it's gonna be a lot easier to find the lessons within the stories within these brain dump sessions. So talk to us a little bit about content brain what it means to you and how you have positioned your clients to get into content, Brian.
Absolutely. Yeah, on that last point of it becomes easier once you kind of do have content brain. It's still it's absolutely true. Like I had mentioned with that post about overwhelm the brain dump. I wrote that post, maybe in like 10 minutes and posted it. You know, I just like I just did it. Because I've had content where you know, I've created this over the last, I think last 345 years, but really for LinkedIn specifically like sort of the formula or the approach I use to LinkedIn content creation within the last year. So two people right now who are even struggling to come up with ideas for content. Don't worry, like that won't be an issue in a little bit. And in fact, you will have a notes open on your phone or like your computer or something a sticky note in her pocket because the content ideas will just come from all places they will they won't stop you know they're so don't worry about content ideas for too long. In the meantime, look, you know, like I said on come at conversations and what your you've been talking about to other people. As for creating that muscle and that post that you referenced about it feeling selfish at first. Personally me like my brain and my upbringing. I struggled with selfishness for quite a while. I thought that it was selfish to you know, put myself first or, you know, put content creation for myself before content creation even for clients, that sort of stuff like it is important to work through those feelings of selfishness and for maybe someone listening it might be perfectionism, it might be that again, self editor, whatever. It kind of pops up for you. Learning how to work through that and work despite of that is really important. And for me, what that looks like is sort of as we've been talking about this whole time, a very systemic approach, you know, systematic approach to sitting down getting into the creative brain writing, some are brain dumping some posts, leaving it very important, leaving it alone going and doing something else, whether that's work related or not. And then coming back to it and you know, connecting the ideas and and the lessons and you know, maybe rewriting that hook two or three or five or 10 times just to make sure that it's really good. I think it really just comes down to like we said be Nike and just do it. Unfortunately, like I don't have much better advice than to sit down and do it. And then in terms of how to find the lessons, I think leaving it is a big part of that and looking at other people's content for not even like I said inspiration like not even for inspiration just for like, what are other people doing that's actually working? And how can I recreate that?
Yeah, this is a really important point that I want to unpack because you're talking about just do it. Simple. I think a lot of people get tripped up and I feel I feel like here's why. I may be completely wrong with what we're about to say. I think it would, I think it's very, very, very difficult for someone to read a book on how to ride a bike and get on a bike and ride. I just do and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there is a human being on this planet that can actually read a book about how to ride a bike, get on a bike and flawlessly ride that bike I would be blown away if that's the case like you have to get on a bike you have to fall you have to understand all the dynamics of riding a bike. The same is true with content on LinkedIn. Where the problem that I think people have though, is when you fall off a bike there's a few people that might see that blunder. And on LinkedIn, people think oh, well if I fall off not being able to produce great content, people are gonna see this and I'm gonna look silly or I'm gonna look stupid. And again, it goes back to that yes, but and that negative mind loop that we tell ourselves. Can you mentioned consistency is so important creativity can come later but it's consistently showing up and doing it and getting back on that bike and an understanding different elements of how to share stories. If I go back and I look at content that I posted two years ago, one year ago, even six months ago, the content I'm producing now, is so different, because I've learned different things that people really need to get in the mindset of creativity will calm you will get into that content brand you're going to develop that muscle. Before I used to stare at a blank sheet of paper or a blank screen I'd be horrified. What do I say what do I do now? I have my here's my problem. Now before it was I had a deficit when it came to content. Now I have such a big surplus that my biggest challenge is what to cut to focus on the most important thing so I want to encourage everyone listening. It's like riding a bike you're gonna fall down you're gonna you're gonna shift you're gonna change people that are incredible bikers that they are racing bikes. Now they didn't start doing that. Right. So with what you do Atlas with your content, correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't start out having this this amazing content that's engaging, right? You start it and then you grow in your depth. Can you talk about the importance of consistency and what that might look like from I know we're kind of knocking structures and systems but from a consistent perspective, people staying at it, maybe they set up like a goal on a certain amount of posts that they're going to do Can you can you speak to the consistency?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I don't have to correct you. I've been perfect from the beginning. My content has always performed and that's awesome. Of course, of course, I was a perfect beginning and you know, even digging deeper. What I came to realize is you can create great content and algorithmically LinkedIn
care. Yeah, that's a really good point at the beginning, like
LinkedIn doesn't want to pick you up because you haven't given enough content and given enough like into the platform for LinkedIn to give back to it. You know, the reason you see the same person's posts all the time is for one, they're posting all the time, but for two because they have previous built engagement and like momentum, and you know, like the snowball theory of they algorithmically have been giving LinkedIn more. So LinkedIn, algorithmically is giving them more to so you know, you can create great content from day one, and people will still not see it because that's just how it is. So consistency is the only way to build that momentum to get your content seen by more people. And you know, LinkedIn is such a fire freaking amazing. Podcast. I don't know if I can curse on this podcast. Like this amazing platform. That's gonna say LinkedIn is such an amazing platform in terms of community people are so willing to help you if you I have people who reach out to me about you know, they love their my content, or they love a specific comment I left on their content or that sort of stuff. And I asked these people I say, hey, you know, you create really good content and you're complimenting my content. If I have an idea that I think like maybe need a sanity check with or I need another content, creator to you know, check it over for me, can you be that person for me? So many people more often than not say yes, you know, if it's a really a point, even if like they don't see the DM and then they you know, come back to it they'll say yes, and people mean it. They will look over you know, don't send them like 10 posts and the one, but people are way more than willing to help you out and offer feedback. And LinkedIn is a really good platform for that. It's the most positive place on the internet for me right now. At least. I see very few channels on LinkedIn. So yeah,
I completely agree with that. That's a really good point about getting feedback and being open to get that feedback for sure. So once people are in this creative mindset, they've created this, this muscle, they're consistent. Now they're going to start to see results, and they're going to start to see lots of results. I want you to talk about what some people refer to as vanity metrics. What are your thoughts on vanity metrics? Good, bad, indifferent? Take us what was that mean to you? What are some of the positives? What are some of the negatives when I say vanity metrics? What are some pictures that come up in your mind?
Yeah, so specific to LinkedIn. What I think about is like, the dissonance between engagement and like the views that you get, so some posts I have have like 1000s If not dozens of 1000s of views and less than 100 likes, you know, less than 100 reactions, less than 10 comments, you know, so there is usually a dissonance between the amount of views you get and the amount of likes reactions you get. Both of these things are vanity metrics in terms of like, that's not like money. That's not revenue. That's not a lead that's not a new fan, that's a new follower. That's not you know, like a like is a like view as of you, but to some degree, and I've written about this actually as well. The views vanity metrics specifically can be a good indicator for whether or not algorithmically LinkedIn is picking up your content. So, for example, I think that post about overwhelming brain dumping has less than 100 reactions, but it's one of my best performing posts, views, views wise, and so create what that says is more people want to see this like content about overwhelm or practicality because LinkedIn is pushing it out to more people. So like the way the content validation process happens, it's actually public knowledge. LinkedIn engineers have shared this on their blog. It's it's there's an automated piece of it, where if it's spammy, obviously it's gonna get like filtered out right away, but there is a human aspect to it as well. And so if a post is continuing to perform well or is continuing to see to be you know, what they determined as good content, then it will continue to get pushed out to your further networks and then your networks, networks, etc. So views can be a good vanity metric for just like navigating what kind of content to create. But in terms of like, practical, value based ROI that comes back all the way up to that, that why that first step of why are you on LinkedIn, what are you looking for? Who is your audience? What does success look like to you for me? As I've mentioned, it means working less, just kind of in total on LinkedIn. It means, you know, for me, uh, when is posting as frequently as I want to, which is honestly usually only two or three times per week. It's not every day.
So let's unpack the content versus the ROI. So you brought up a really good point regarding the views. What's interesting to me is again, exactly what you said a ton of us is zoned in on those content pieces. And I've been surprised where I'll post something and I'm blown away that I got that much traction. And now I have something to focus on. The ROI is interesting. So to bring the ROI back to a financial dollar, one of the worst posts I had in the last year where I got the least amount of engagement. One of the individuals that liked that post became one of my biggest clients. So people might look at that thinking, Oh, that got not not that much engagement that's not that valuable of a post will was to that person. So I want people to get a mindset of I'm going to post it's going to be this much traction. This is what it means what do we how do we learn from I think what you said brings that to light, it's okay, what am I going to learn from it? If I post something and it goes semi viral and it gets a ton of traction? Why did that happen? Maybe I need to focus more on that specific piece. But sometimes, you might post something and a few people might see it and it might start an awesome discovery call might start an incredible conversation that leads to a really great business relationship that leads to a client or maybe even leads to a friendship where that person is helping you with content. So I want people to just start getting in the mindset of putting stories into the world and then evaluating and figuring out how to how to go from there.
Yeah, and I want to reiterate on my point of what success is for me is just posting that's something I can control. You know like that. Posting is an action that I can control. So having a success metric based on something that I can control makes it very easy to reach that success metric and to you know, then reward myself no matter how small even if it's just a walk down to go get a nice coffee because I met what my success metric is. So, you know, if you really, really really struggle with vanity metrics or not feeling good enough or self doubt or finding yourself comparing yourself to others, then put the success metric into a place of what can I control. And usually the easiest one for me at least is just how many times I'm posting per week. So if you can dedicate to you know, one really good posts per week. Just do that. You don't have to do seven days a week in order to do five days a week you want to do three days a week you can do one really good post per week. And as long as you continue to do that one, you're being consistent, which is the most important these two, you're creating content. So congratulations, you're a content creator. And for three years successful in what you define as success, which can be a huge mindset shift to further you know, again, that growth and development and like I had mentioned earlier that that being able to challenge yourself.
Sure, absolutely. Thank you for for sharing that. So before we wrap up and we close, I want to I want to dive into some of the things that I learned from the conversation today and then we'll wrap up so I really appreciate and the beginning you talking about the why really understanding why you're doing this in the first place. And you mentioned something to me that I had never heard of before regarding talking about LinkedIn content. You said sometimes the ROI isn't just financial and I think that's so important for people to recognize even in the business space. Because ROI could speed up your sales pipeline process. It can lead to discovery calls quicker. It can lead to developing better business relationships. All of these are not necessarily a financial perspective right out of the gate. They're indirectly financial, financially linked but the All eyes really important for me it was timing for me it radically decreased the amount of time that I was doing networking and I was still getting maximum results. I appreciate you mentioned that that sometimes ROI doesn't necessarily have dollars attached. I also appreciate the comment that you talked about regarding creativity and how a lot of times the West does not value creativity doesn't allow for space for creativity. We want systems and checks and balances and formulas and all these different things structure around our creativity and sometimes you can't box in and structure creativity that's a recipe for disaster. I appreciate you mentioned that. I also appreciate you talking about the consistency and understanding that views could help empower you to focus on different content pieces. And also sometimes it doesn't matter if it doesn't do well to do the general audience and might do well to one person or a couple people. And that can make a huge difference for us. So I really appreciate those three things that's that's going to be my biggest takeaway. I know that listeners got a ton out of it, as well. So I want anyone that's interested in learning more about what you do. Maybe they need help regarding LinkedIn, where's the best place that they could reach out to you Atlas? Yeah, I
mean, I guess the easiest one is LinkedIn Of course. Sure. I love when people send me connection requests and they let me know where they found me you know, so mentioned the podcast mentioned that, you know, connect us so that I can tell Matt, hey, look, people are listening and they're reaching out awesome. And then of course, you can always email me too, that's on my public profile, but it's just Atlas Secretary creative.com And last but not least, I do have a weekly newsletter. Where I talk a little bit about LinkedIn marketing here, and they're mostly for freelancers. Overall, though. So a lot of my philosophies for marketing and stuff will, you know, be applied in different places, and that's on substack. It's called figure out freelancing. The last piece I really want to touch on myself is making sure that it's known that you can rely both on western ideals and structures and systems and processes. I absolutely do. I love systems. That stuff is what you know, makes it easy for me to repeat things repeat success. So you can rely on those and your intuition and the non western way of looking at things. I think, finding the balance that is right for you, is based off of again, your goals, but goals are usually informed by your values. So whatever you value, however your brain works if you're neurodivergent or not figuring out the balance of systems and intuition is gonna be what really sets you apart and starts, you know, lights the fire underneath your butt. Sure.
Sure. Outstanding points. Thank you so much. I will include links in the show notes where people can connect right to you. Thank you again, I appreciate all of your time today. Thank you so much. I thought it was a phenomenal conversation.