The Power of Collaboration | Stories With Traction Podcast

SHOW NOTES:

SUMMARY: In this episode, Linda Goldstein and Matt Zaun talk about Linda’s time as Mayor of Clayton, MO, and what she learned about getting things done through collaboration.

LINDA GOLDSTEIN BIO: Linda is the Founder and CEO of Linda Goldstein Consulting; she is the former Mayor of Clayton, Missouri, and she is a coach and trusted advisor to CEOs, business leaders, and key executives.

For more info, check out Linda here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindalgoldstein/
https://lindagoldsteinconsulting.com/


MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE. 

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Great leadership is hard. Due to movies and social media, we're bombarded with messages that leadership is glamorous.

But in reality, business leaders need to make hard decisions every single day. Though at times leadership can be rewarding, it can also be incredibly frustrating, tiring, and sometimes even lonely.

That's what I want to focus on in this conversation. Today, I'm joined by Linda Goldstein. She is the founder and CEO of Linda Goldstein Consulting.

She's the former mayor of Clayton, Missouri, and she is a coach and trusted advisor to CEOs, business leaders, and key executives.

Welcome to the show, Linda.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Thank you. It's good to be here.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Thank you. And I very much appreciate your time. I just I know you're extremely busy, so thank you for spending time with us today.

I want to unpack different elements of leadership. I just I feel like for whatever reason there is this glitz and glamour forward-facing image.

And then behind the scenes, there are decisions leaders need to make day in and day out that at times can be grueling.

So I want to dive into your background, some of the experiences you've gone through in the public service environment, and then ultimately leading into business and a lot of these executives.

So I really want to start with that public

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

service time. So when you were leading up to being mayor, is it something that you wanted to do for a while?

Was there an aha moment where you wanted to get involved? How did that start? That's I have two answers for you.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

A typical politician, right? There you go. That's right.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

What I'm what when I I had to be convinced to run for mayor, I had really not pressured but encouraged people wanted me to run.

And I thought, Oh, well, I'm running, I ran a commercial flooring contracting business. And so I was it was a small business as well, mid-sized $20 million business that I, you know, I was responsible for a day in and day out.

And I was worried that I wouldn't have the time to devote to mayor. However, I know we're going to talk about some of the things that I did while I was in office.

And those things I have been passionate about prior to ever even being in office. Like I would have hopefully found a way to work on them even without the public persona.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. Okay. All right. So based on what you're doing in the business world, do you solve and how long were you working leading this commercial flooring business prior to diving into public service?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Well, I had been there a total when I left to do my consulting business, which is what I have now.

I had been in the business for over 20 years.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Wow.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

It was actually my husband's family's company. And in the end, one thing led to another and I ended up heading it up.

Wow. Okay.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

So was there was there like a specific need that you saw when you ran for mayor that you wanted to talk right out of a gate?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

I was very involved in environmental issues as an alderman and I got a reputation for getting things done in sustainability in our community and actually I was recognized nationally for some of the initiatives that I brought to Clayton.

So I continued that and then as mayor I had even more opportunities to invest in that.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure, great. So let's talk about some of those environmental issues. Specifically one of the stories that you mentioned to me, I just want to paint the scene for everyone.

So what was happening at that time and kind of dive into that.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

So can you talk about what was happening within restaurants within your area? I can and actually I'm glad you mentioned that because one of the things that I can't say I ran for mayor to do.

So, but it's something that I did was I worked with the restaurants. I worked with the whole community to have smoke-free public spaces.

And the reason that it became, it was always, when I told you I had two answers earlier, I always had the passion for smoke-free air and to avoid passive smoking.

Before some of your listeners think, oh my gosh, she's just a radical, non-smoking person, I felt that anybody can smoke.

You could smoke. I don't care. It's your right to smoke. But I care when it becomes a public hazard, when it affects public health.

And that's, I got very involved in the rights of the people who work in the restaurants and in the offices.

And so that was a The passion of mine was public health and smoke free air.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. That's great. Yeah. And it's interesting to think today that you used to walk into a restaurant and we're asked smoking or non-smoking.

It is just incredible today to think that. But so to paint the scene, that was the case when you were doing this.

And there had to have been other positive reasons for this, right? So maybe people weren't, they didn't want to go into a restaurant.

So maybe different restaurant owners were getting hurt. So what other factors played into this as well?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

You asked about an aha moment and we, we, the elected officials of Clayton were interested in, we have three major universities in this, in this city.

And, and we were not getting the people, the students would come in. They'd go to the university and they'd go home or somewhere.

else. And our own students and young people were going away to college and staying away. And when we started our informal data collection asking people, why didn't you come back to St.

Louis? And they said, among other things, because they didn't use the word barbaric, but I think they would have, if they were less polite.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

They said, it's ridiculous. You have smoking in restaurants.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

And nobody else where we've lived in the communities, other communities allow that. And so it became not just a public health hazard, which certainly, you know, we attract and retain young talent.

We have a lot of major companies. in our city and they needed the young talent and we had everything.

We had to the degree we had or a walkable city. We have extensive bike paths. We have, you know, we're fashion-forward in terms of the environment and alternative energy and all of these programs that young people this smoking thing apparently was big because we got that answer from a number of them saying, sure, I don't want to be in a place that allows smoking.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. So just so people understand, because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening to this thinking that's a no-brainer, right, especially today where we are to no-brainer.

But paint the scene for us because this was not an easy feat for you to do. I mean there was a lot of decision makers behind the scenes.

I'm sure there's many varying different ideas and opinions and all kinds of feedback you were getting. So under the pressure in the moment, what was going through your head when maybe some people were supporting you, but maybe they weren't being vocal of that support.

So you weren't having as much muscle behind it. Maybe you were getting criticized. I can only imagine the emails and phone calls that you may have received.

In that moment, what was the focus for you?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

So it was very interesting and you alluded to backstories in business and in politics because there's always you read things in the paper and there's always just a whole other life behind the scene.

So the backstory was quite interesting because yes publicly we were really criticized and just had a lot of restaurants, the restaurants primarily were the ones

that didn't want the smoking ban. And so we had to deal with that. But we did this right. We took eight months to go through this process.

And the beginning of it was data collection. We did surveys. We knew that something like 76% of our citizens wanted Clayton to go smoke free.

Even if we were in Ireland in a smoking area. Even if we were in Ireland, 76% said doing. So that was good.

And we, we surveyed our businesses. We have a lot of business here. And again, the vast majority said smoke free air.

Yes, that would be great. Then we interviewed and surveyed our restaurants and it was split down the middle. 49 wanted it or.

didn't want it and 51 the other way. So we knew that that was what was going to be a hurdle.

We went into this saying that there's one thing we have a draft ordinance. It's truly draft. We want to hear from you.

We held, I think, three public hearings maybe four. We truly wanted to listen because just like in business, the more perspectives you have, the better decision you get.

You don't want yes men around you. You really do want to hear others' opinions. So we worked with all of our constituents and there were some serious concerns on behalf of the restaurants.

And so we worked really hard with them to satisfy their needs. And then you talk about the emails. I got more emails in support, but people were afraid.

They don't want to get involved in a controversy. So they were comfortable emailing, but didn't want to go, you know, to the, you know, heated public meetings.

They didn't want to do that. So.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

When you were receiving all these emails, did you feel encouraged and supported?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Or were you frustrated that people were unwilling to vocalize this publicly? Well, the emails I got from the restaurants, there was a restaurant association and Clayton and still is.

And the head of it was vehemently, you know, very vocal against this in no uncertain terms. And he brought in all the other restaurateurs who could make it and they'd sit behind him and they would just sit there and look, I got so many emails from them.

saying don't you dare. Here's my name. But I totally support what you do. I have to do this because I'm in the association and my fellow.

They didn't know that each other supported the whole idea of smoke-free air. And so it was gratifying. It was kind of confirmed some of the things we were saying.

And there's one email I referenced in the chapter of the book that I wrote recently. It was from a man who said, I eat in Clayton restaurants at least once a week.

And I'm a smoker. And if you, and I light up after every meal, if you ban smoking in Clayton, and I thought, oh no.

I don't know here we go. And he said if you ban smoking and Clayton, I'm going to have to go outside to smoke and I will do that.

But I smoke too much and I really am trying to give it up. So I'll be back and I'm really happy that you're doing this.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

That's a turnaround. Okay.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Just when I was prepared for the worst. Do you mind? I don't know how much you want me to talk, but it reminds me of another thing that happened that I was prepared for the worst and it turned out to be the best.

Can I tell another story?

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Absolutely.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

So one night, you know, I worked full time running that business. And so one evening, it's dark out and I'm heading to City Hall.

And as I approach it, I see all of the media trucks, which is, you know, with the satellites and the lights and then I like to see the lights.

look and I see there's people with signs picketing in front of City Hall. And I thought, oh gosh, it's going to be such a late night and oh my goodness what's going on.

So as I got closer to all this, I looked at the signs and people were going by and they were honking their horns and you know all this oh goodness.

And so I looked and these were teenagers with Clayton High School t-shirts on and they were saying the signs that they were holding were wrong if you want clean air.

And so all this chaos that I thought it was chaos and I thought it was dissent was in fact in favor and I was so happy because I had really one of my efforts was to get young people involved in the

local government.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

And here they were, they showed up. So it was great. Yeah. Well, that is great. Thank you for sharing that.

I appreciate that. And it also shows people too that. So you, as you mentioned, you're working full time running this business plus you doing this in addition.

And I feel like a lot of people, especially around the country, for whatever reason, maybe it's West Wing or shows like that, that there's really, there's not as much of an understanding of what public service is in the local communities, especially when we're talking about a mayor.

So I appreciate you painting that picture for us, because there's a lot that goes into that. There's a lot of people that their hearts are in the right place.

They want to bring about positive change. And they have a lot going on, right? So I feel like a lot of the shows and movies out there don't really do it justice as far as what's happening behind the scenes.

I appreciate you mentioned that. I do want to ask you those. So you get the residents on board, you mentioned 76% approved.

of overwhelming majority, you get a lot of businesses on board and then you have restaurants that are split. What what tipped the scales in the direction of doing this?

What was their different stories that people were sharing?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Was it one specific thing? What was something that tipped the scales? In the end, the answer to that in the end, we worked very closely with the restaurants and other constituents and we drafted a different ordinance that answered all their their serious and legitimate concerns.

It was, you know, again, other perspectives, you make a better decision and we have thought of some of the things that they were bringing up.

So and then we promised the restaurants that we would devote, I can't remember how much money, but we have a nice sized budget.

that we were going to devote to a public relations campaign to publicize Clayton's smoke-free restaurants. And then we did something to accelerate the time to have outdoor dining, getting the license for that because we at that time had, and you could still smoke an outdoor dining.

That's changed shortly after we put the ordinance into place, and that was by our residents asking for that. So the thing that really got it through was the process.

It was a process that was very inclusive. We had no hidden agenda other than doing what was right for public health.

That was, that wasn't a hidden agenda, we said it.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. Yeah, I appreciate the aspect of collaboration, right? And clearly we need to do this in business, right? So just so everyone is clear, like a lot of this translates to business because as leaders, we're constantly having to collaborate.

I appreciate what you said about you don't want yes, man, right? You want individuals to play that devil's advocate to kind of rough the idea up to refine it.

So talk about how this positioned you to help others lead.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

So I, well, I make sure I understand your question. Are you asking? Could you ask me again?

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So everything that you've gone through, and this is just one of them, sure many stories that you can mention regarding collaboration.

But because of all of this regarding how to work with the residents, the businesses, the restaurants, the key decision makers, and to figure out something that works in a.

addition to everything that you were doing with the business you were running and commercial flooring.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

How did this position you to help other leaders lead to be better? So I share my stories with a lot of other leaders and I'm quick to say, I was always quick to say in my business position and as mayor, we accomplished this, not me, you know, and I gave credit because behind every really important initiative and big decision and policy or whatever, there's got to be more people to really implement, to come up with the best solution, to implement it and all that.

So it really is about a team of people and the perfect example in this smoking thing is that I got Clayton to be smoking.

of free. My initial efforts, I went to the state of Missouri early on and sort of got laughed out of Jefferson City.

And yeah, you can picture that. If you want what? Small free? What do you mean? So anyway, that was that I decided not to take too much time pursuing that.

But then I went to the county and they were like, no way. And then I went to the city.

But if I had gotten, you know, as I did, I got fighting to be smoke free and we were all very happy.

But meanwhile, I had been working with Lita Cruzan, who was an alderman at that time. She, it was the first woman mayor of the city of St.

Louis. Anyway, she and I had collaborated on some other things. And she was able to get an ordinance in place in the city.

that if the county went smoke free, the city would go smoke free. So I was also working with the county and a woman named Barbara Frazier, who is a county councilwoman.

And we were able to get the issue on the ballot for the county. And that passed again with overwhelming majority of county residents wanting to go smoke free.

So after Clayton started this, the county went smoke free and the city went smoke free. And so it's the power of a collaboration.

You know, it really is. It's that three of us did this. If it hadn't been for the other two women, Clayton would have been quite happy as a smoke free island, but it would not have had the impact that the efforts of three people made.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Yeah. So everything you just mentioned just screams. strategy to me, right? So you really figured out the strategy behind it, where there wasn't going to work in the city, you take it to the county, put it on the ballot, let the residents decide that's just brilliant strategy.

And that's what we need to do in business all the time. If something's not working, what strategy not only thinking outside the box, but doing outside the box, right?

And you absolutely did outside the box. I appreciate you mentioning that. I do want to talk a little bit about what you were doing leading this commercial flooring business.

And something in particular that I'm curious about. So and correct me if I'm wrong, I would guess that that industry is a male dominated industry.

I'm just I'm just, just a hunch. So I, I have a daughter that is just unbelievably creative. I don't know what she's going to do in the future, but she just unbelievably creative, incredible connector of people at a very young age.

So if you were to speak to my daughter, what would you say for some someone that is showing signs of a great leadership in the future, very creative.

What would you say to her starting out in, let's say, business? What are some things that you would say for her to be mindful of?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

I would probably say something like, well, I would tell her about my sister in law, who was part of the family business as well.

And who was an actress, she went to college to be an actress, and she was very creative. And she and I thought very differently.

I'm the logical part of it. And she was the creative and it was a great partnership. But I would probably tell your daughter that she's going to think different from other people.

I mean, we all think differently. And that's what makes such good decisions. And it's what makes the best solutions.

And she should feel comfortable about up even if it sounds different from what other people are saying in business.

And I would just say that creativity in my mind is such an important part of so many things. I don't think you can be a good researcher without being creative.

You can't be a good teacher. You can't really be a good business person without some creativity or surrounding yourself with creative people.

So she has a gift that not everyone has and she should be proud of it.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Great. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing that. And thank you so much for your time today.

I very much appreciate your time. I feel like we dove into a lot of different stuff. I got a lot out of it, three in particular, that I want to mention.

I really appreciate what you mentioned in the beginning of this journey. You mentioned eight months collecting data, collecting the surveys, focusing on the residents, businesses, and the restaurants.

That is really important regarding collaboration. It's absolutely incredible back to your point for people to not focus on surrounding themselves with the S-Men, but to allow others to play devil's advocate so that we can build not only a more inclusive process, but to really make sure that people feel heard.

I appreciate you mention that. The second thing I appreciate you mentioned is the sheer strategy that came into play.

On you have this goal, you have this objective, but there's a lot of barriers. And in order to overcome those barriers, you not only thought, but you did outside the box, which was getting it on the ballot in the county, which basically in turn the city followed.

So I appreciate you mention that. And then the third and final piece, I really appreciate you mentioning creativity. I think often in business, we talk so much about innovation and innovating for our customers and clients.

And that is all good. It's very rare that we talk about internal creativity. So I very much appreciate you mentioning.

So, all in all, thank you so much, Linda, for your time. If people want to get to know more about what you do, what you do with a lot of different business leaders, where's the best place that they can go to get that information?

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

Well, I have a website for my consulting business and it's lindagoldsteinconsulting.com. And I also have a strong presence on LinkedIn.

So you could look me up on LinkedIn. It's Linda Goldstein, St. Louis, Missouri.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Perfect. Awesome. I will include both those in the show notes so people can just click and go right to your website, what you do on LinkedIn.

 

Linda Goldstein (vistagechair.com)

But again, thank you so much for your time today. I very much appreciate it. I really enjoyed this man.

Thank you so much.