How to Get Involved in Politics | Stories With Traction Podcast

 

SHOW NOTES:

PODCAST EPISODE MENTIONED: Stories of Leadership.

SUMMARY: In this episode, Terence Farrell and Matt Zaun talk about how you can get involved politically.

TERENCE FARRELL BIO: Terence served as a Chester County Commissioner for 12 years, and before that, he was the Recorder of Deeds for 8 years.  Today, he is the President of For Real Solutions, a consulting firm that brings value to its clients through leveraging Terence’s knowledge, experience, network, and creativity. Two of the major focuses for his business are on reducing healthcare costs for various organizations and mitigating loss in pension funds that occur because of fraud or other illegal activities.

For more info, check out Terence HERE.


MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE. 

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors.

 

Matt Zaun 

13 years ago, I was at an event and I saw people circling around a man on the opposite side of the room.

They were shaking hands, laughing and sharing stories. Naturally, my immediate thought was, who is that? I watched an amazement as this individual quote unquote, the room.

He shook every single hand in that ballroom. I was amazed at how this individual had the ability to connect with everyone that came in his path.

It would be years until I'd realized the impact this man had on the community I lived in. The person I'm talking about is Terrence Ferel.

It was an honor privilege having Terrence on the stories of traction podcast four months ago. Since our last conversation, I've actually received a few messages from people asking to dive deeper into the political.

right now regarding that podcast episode. I will include the last episode that we had in the show notes. You can click and go check it out.

It's called stories of leadership. For those of you who are not familiar with Terrence, Terrence Ferlitt served as a Chester County Commissioner for 12 years.

Before that, he was the recorder of deeds for eight years. And today he is the president of Four Real Solutions, which is a consulting firm that brings value to its clients through leveraging Terrence's knowledge, experience, network, and creativity to the major focuses for his business or reducing health care costs for various organizations and mitigating loss and pension funds that occur because of fraud or other illegal activities.

 

Terence Farrell

Welcome back to the show Terrence. Thank you, Matt.

 

Matt Zaun 

Thank you for having me back. Yeah, and I appreciate what we dove into last time. I know we kind of we had a lot of different angles last time diving into your background.

We have talked about your parents and significance that they had on your life. And we started to dip our toe into your political involvement.

But I wanted to have you back because I have received numerous messages from people because I think there's a lot of interest in the political world, especially today.

And I want to unpack that. Here's why I want to unpack it. Because we hold devices in the palm of our hand, and because investigative journalism is, if it's not dead, it's on life support.

The problem is a lot of times people when they're viewing news, it's not necessarily local news. A lot of our conversations are focused on national news.

And I really feel that people are missing out on something that's extremely important. Because as you know, Terrence, the likelihood that most people listening to this episode are actually going to have a private conversation with the president of the United States, regardless of what's going on.

So what side of the aisle that individual represents is very rare, right? But they more than likely would come in contact with a county commissioner.

And it's amazing how much county commissioners have an even significant effect on a lot of our lives, our day to day, than what's happening in Washington, D.C.

And a lot of people aren't really focused on local politics. So I want you to kind of spell out for us what a commissioner does, what people may be surprised that a commissioner does, and something that you would like people to take away as just they can get an understanding of what's happening at a local level because a lot of our conversations are drowned out by national news.

 

Terence Farrell 

Well, thanks, Matt. First of all, I want to underscore what you said about the importance of local politics versus national or even state politics, the impact that the local politics,

politics, the local, political entities have a person's life significantly more important than the President of the United States, even those who are running our serve in Congress, even those that serve in the state legislature.

You mentioned my role as a commissioner, as important, perhaps even more important on someone's pocketbook, are the local school boards.

You know, those folks are elected, they're not paid, they're all volunteer, but particularly in our locale in Pennsylvania, the greatest tax, property tax is levied by school boards, secondly by counties and third by the local municipality.

Now, throughout the United States that might not be the same, because there are different jurisdictions that do different things different ways.

But a county commissioner, at least in the Pennsylvania structure, There are three county commissioners in each of the 60, well, most of the 67 counties in Pennsylvania, some of the counties have what's known as Home Rule, which is a slightly different system.

But the county commissioners are the executive branch. They're also the judicial branch. They are basically all three levels of government.

They have the power, the commissioners have the power of the budget primarily. They set folks' taxes. They hire and fire.

They set policy, important policies, such as whether the county is going to preserve open space or not, and other policy issues.

So the county commissioners cover the whole range of what happens at county government and are responsible for everything that happens.

If something bad happens on the county commissioners. Watch it bubbles up to them, even if it might have happened in a specific what was called a row office one of the other Offices that run say the recorder deeds office Or not an interesting thing That would happen at the commissioner's office would be an Interesting thing would be the number of folks that would actually reach out to and this is once again to underscore the impact Local government has on an individual Best experiences I had was where when someone would reach out to me as a county commissioner with an issue with a problem Maybe they've contacted another branch of county government but got no satisfaction And so they would reach out to me and my system would put them through I always took calls and I would be able to in a couple of minutes because of my experience Point them in the right directions.

Maybe back them to Department head, whether it's the treasurer or the controller or recorded deeds, registered wills, one of those, and solve that person's problem.

I think that's really what I enjoyed most about being a county commissioner is that ability to impact an individual person in a very, very positive way.

You know, broadly, we spent millions of dollars each year on preserving an open space, which was a benefit to all the residents in Chester County.

But, you know, that was a general impact, a general positive thing that was happening. But the impact on an individual really left me glowing at the end of the day.

Was there a third part of that question, Matt?

 

Matt Zaun 

Would you like to repeat that? Yeah, no, I really appreciate what you mentioned so far. I think it's really important for people to understand that.

I think there's a tremendous amount of confusion right now. And rightly so. I think a lot. other conversations are dictated by news outlets.

So regardless of what news outlet people watch that are listening to this episode, that's not the point of this.

But news today is a profit machine. And in order to get clicks, they have to rely on clickbait. A lot of these are emotionally driven stories and experiences and situations to get people to read and dive in different articles.

And I think what it's done is it's created massive confusion for people and hopelessness. It's very rare that you come in contact with someone that is just excited and fired up about the direction of where the nation's going.

Regardless of what political ideology that they really grab a hold of, it's very rare that you get the majority of people that you speak to that are just fired up about that.

And I think it's because they're so focused on the national conversations. So a lot of people listening to this might want to get involved, but they might have that sense of hope.

lessness that they can't change Washington or they can't change different different aspects of what's happening So for for people that are of that camp that they might have wanted to get involved But they just don't know where to start.

What would you recommend that they do?

 

Terence Farrell

Well, I've seen along my path there are basically two ways to get involved in local politics one is through an issue it might be a school board issue someone's going to build a new school or they're gonna school boards going to raise taxes and it it fans a brown swell of either opposition or support and someone who leads that movement might Be elected at the next time so that person may or may not have had previous political experience but because they come into the limelight as a leader of this particular movement either opposition to or in support of a certain issue there can

had to pull it into the forefront of the political consciousness. And next time there's election held, they run. And sometimes they're successful.

For me, the other way was my pathway. And that is basically starting at the bottom as a volunteer, getting involved in helping other people get elected, getting involved in supporting a particular issue and then working your way up through the political ladder.

I started that way and that's how I became a county commissioner ultimately. I've got involved as a volunteer when my kids were really young.

And as they got older and my wife allowed me out of the house to attend other meetings, I got involved in supporting candidates helping with minor fundraisers, whether they were subsales or a golf outing or something.

And then ultimately, a brand became a committee person, which is a very powerful elected position, serving in my local precinct, standing out at the polls, you know, twice a year at elections, and then became area chair and then ran for what is known in Chester County as a row office that you mentioned, the row office I was ultimately successful in being elected to and that was a recorder of deeds, serve there eight years, but used that experience, used that opportunity really to refurbish the office, bring it into the 20th, 21st century, and use that as a platform to say, you know, look, I've done this, I can be a successful recorder of deeds and I also can be a successful commissioner, use that platform, ran for commissioner in 2007, was elected, ran again in 2011, was re-elected, ran again in 2011.

and 15 and was reelected. So I served three terms or 12 years. So working your way up through the ladder, political ladder is the other way.

I do recommend that people get involved in whatever capacity they can at the street level, at the block level, and make a contribution there.

And people will recognize your contribution and promote you, come to you and ask you to run. If you really put your heart and effort into making a very positive contribution.

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, so let's unpack elements of starting at the bottom, but using the verbiage that you had mentioned. So, and again, because people listening to this, they're not going to call the White House and get a one-on-one meeting with the president.

They're not going to get in touch with the U.S. Senate office and actually be sitting across the table from a U.S.

Senator, you know, a week or so later, right? I mean, it's it's it's extremely rare. So let's talk about what can be done.

So for anyone listening that has ever wanted to get involved, this is something that you can almost do immediately because there's local races that happen all the time that they need volunteers.

A lot of them would be more than willing to have you, knock doors for them, drop off the literature, come to events.

There's so much that people can do to get involved. So I want to kind of unpack a little bit of that.

So someone is interested in the political arena. What are some things that they could do? I know you'd mentioned like school board, you'd mentioned committee.

What should someone do as if they hear this episode and a week or so from now, now we're in the summer months.

What would you recommend that they do to prepare for the fall to get involved in local campaigns?

 

Terence Farrell 

Well, I think one of the things to recognize no matter what salad of the aisle you're on is that there is a political structure.

of both parties. Both parties, you know, have committee people that serve at each precinct, and the precinct is where the people vote.

So find out who your committee people are, reach out to them, you know, let them know that you're interested, and they will hopefully, you know, put you into the process of getting involved.

The second way to do it is reach out directly to a candidate. Maybe you know who's running for school board.

Maybe they live down the street, you know, get in touch with that person and let that person know that you're interested in supporting them.

You know, it might be as simple as putting a yard sign in your yard. It might be as you suggest knocking doors or making phone calls or, you know, perhaps just speaking up and letting your neighbors know that you're supporting this particular person.

So those would be the two immediate ways. Connect with your committee person. at the can.

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, I like that advice. That's very practical advice. You know, when I was in school and I was doing retail, retail jobs, I remember thinking to myself, this is really good for people to do because you understand interactions with people, right?

And then when I became a father, I made it a point for my kids getting involved in the political process.

I wanted them to see different elements of negotiation, what it's like to be at these different tables. You know, I've taken all three of my kids door to door with me on multiple campaigns.

It's been wonderful for them to experience it. I always challenge people to get involved in the political process. One, it's very eye opening.

But also regardless of where you are, you will refine your skills. I can't tell you how many CEOs that I've come into contact with that I recommend they get involved in campaigns and they do and they'll be willed with how much it refines their skills, public speaking skills.

Again, that negotiation skill aspect, just dealing. with people in general, I think it's a really good skill to have.

So let's take it from that angle. What would be some of the skill sets that you've seen people having those skills refined by being involved in the political process?

Anyone maybe that has been a part of your team Terrence or maybe you've worked for or or anyone that you have supported?

Have you seen this progression and development of them as people?

 

Terence Farrell 

For sure and you know once again I'd like to underscore a highlight something you said. You said as a parent you know you're encouraging your kids to get involved in the political process and fundamentally that's how I got involved in the political process.

My parents were active politically. You know my mom served on the school board way back in the last century.

You know my dad was involved and we talked politics at the dinner table and this was one there was only three television stations and we listened to Walter Cronkite in the evening and discussed the discussion.

the news and the importance of being involved, the importance of being involved locally. So, you know, once again, in terms of being civically minded for all those parents out there, whether they're CEOs or non-CEOs, whether whoever they are, not only get involved, but encourage your children to get involved, set the example that this democracy we have only works when people get involved and people step up and support others, when people step up and become candidates, etc.

Now, to your specific question about skill sets that are useful and can be developed over a particular time, you mentioned just the interaction with people.

I think, you know, to be a good politician, you've got to like people and you've got to like to interact with them.

You've got to like to hear their stories. Where did they come from? You know, what are what's on their minds?

What things interest you? And then you've got to be willing to and interested in sharing your own story. You know, this is my background.

And in that conversation and sharing stories, often you'll find synergies. You know, well, I didn't know that you were interested in X, Y, Z.

You know, maybe we can get together later on and talk about, you know, preserving open space. Maybe we can talk about, you know, helping the fire company, you know, raise money in their capital campaign.

So being willing to engage with people, I think, is fundamental. You've got to like people. I mean, there are some politicians who've made it who seem to be stand off.

You know, but I think they're the rare, the rare bird. And also, you know, as you rise through the ladder, as you become more and more the politician, the person that is asked to speak at a time.

to various events, just the ability to be a good public speaker, you know, is a skill that you can refine by public speaking.

You know, they say practice doesn't make perfect, it's perfect practice that makes perfect. So the more you do something, the better you get at it, you know, my own journey, and I related this last time we spoke was the realization that when I'm speaking to an audience, when I'm speaking to an individual, they don't know what I'm going to say.

So even though, you know, I don't complete the thought, I recall how I was speaking before I broke up the committee, I had a script all laid out in my head, but two thirds of the way through it, I forgot what I was going to say.

And I stopped and then people started applauding. And at that moment, I realized, hmm, I've delivered my message. They don't know that there's a

was more to the message and they're applauding me because I came and I spoke. And that was a turning point for me just to realize that, you know, what I'm coming to say is not necessarily what they're coming to receive.

 

Matt Zaun 

Sure. That's really good point. That's really a point. And yes, it is good to like people to be in the political world.

And going back to the way I opened this segment is talking about watching you as an elected official. I've had witnessed you at events, kind of see how you interact with people.

And you have a magnetic personality. People thoroughly enjoy being around you. I mean, my wife actually mentioned to me a couple weeks ago, we were talking about just local politics and your name came up about how how much you really appreciate every time she was at an event.

You knew her a little bit about her background, her story. And she gravitated towards being in a conversation with you at an event.

 

Terence Farrell 

She really appreciated that. Was that natural or do you think that That was a refined skill that you developed over time.

In part is natural. I mean, I've always liked people. You know, I've always liked the interaction, the social aspect of being a person.

But I didn't work at it, you know, you know, whenever I saw Courtney, I would, you know, recall her name.

Now, subsequently, you know, as I've interacted with perhaps 10,000 people, perhaps more, I've relied upon my smartphone to take notes, you know, about people, about people's names, you know, where I met them, some of the things, so that, you know, I can come to them and not say, you know, what was it we were talking to about last time?

You know, I would come to them and say, hey, I realized that the last time we spoke, we were talking about the

importance of a good diet, good exercise, and so on. And you recall I sent you a little pamphlet about cooking with love.

So I always try to make a note sometimes just in my context about what someone's interested in. And sometimes just naturally I remember it and plus it's important, you know, important to me.

And then remembering names is something that a politician should work at. You know, some it comes better to some people than to others.

But you know, there's some primary rules about how to remember people's names and you can study that. But the key thing is that to remember someone's name you have to have it first, you know, and one of the key skills I'll just pass on one of them is just after you've met someone and they've introduced themselves, repeat their name back to them, you know, so good to meet you Matt, you know, and then

And you can make associations with whatever, you know, Matt has a good mat of hair. And people will see this, but it's true.

And it's particularly true if they could see me who doesn't have any hair.

 

Matt Zaun 

You know, so I don't want people to miss that because I know it sounds so simplistic, but I want people to understand the magnitude of this, the importance of recognizing, remembering names, and also the note-taking ability.

So in this, this transcends politics, right? This is, this is every area of life, but specifically politics and business.

If you remember someone's name and something about them, your likability factor goes up and they've done numerous studies over the years with different politicians that maybe, I'm not saying that this is you, Terrence, but I'm saying other individuals that they might not be, the person might not agree with them as a politician.

They might not even like their policies, but they like them as a person. and the likeability factor far outweighs political ideology.

They've done numerous studies over the years on this. The likeability factor is so unbelievably important. And whether you are a candidate or you become an elected official or you're CEO of a company, I mean companies talk all the time having a vibrant company culture.

What better way to have an awesome culture than remember the names of your team members and understand a little bit about who they are, what makes them tick, what drives them the stories that make them them as people.

A lot of times back to what you've done over the years taking copious notes, whether it's on pen to paper or whether it's in your phone.

That's one of the advantages we have with technology, though different elements of technology has been to the demise of culture in many ways.

It's been an asset that we have this device in the palm of our hand. We could check notes, different stories that we've heard, different experiences as we're going into a meeting.

It just makes us, it sets us apart and gives us the opportunity to potentially. they can act on a deeper level.

So I don't want people to miss that. It's so important to create a system, a documentation system, whether it's in someone's CRM, whether it's in Google Docs or Apple notes, something that they could put in there to jot down notes that they can utilize for their benefit.

 

Terence Farrell 

So thank you for mentioning that, Terrence. Certainly. When someone gives you a car, I have a software on my phone, a cam card.

I'm able to scan that and put it directly into my notes. In someone's contact information, I'm able to put notes in there when I talk to them what they mentioned.

So that's critical. And as a politician, as someone seeking someone else's vote, you have to realize people will vote for you for a number of different reasons.

You mentioned that you're on the same policy page with someone. You support this issue and they support this issue.

So they're going to vote for you. Sometimes it's just the fact that they had a conversation. conversation with you, maybe it's in an event, maybe it's at the door, and they like you.

That's all they need to go out and vote for this person. I remember, you know, talking to people who just, you know, came to the poll and the only interaction me was one time, but that's all they need.

It can be a paper, thin kind of reason. They know you. They met you. They liked you. They liked that conversation.

And you're exactly right. This is true not only in politics, but in business. I think that you might have had someone on your podcast recently who mentioned the fact that they were going on a tour of a factory with a CEO and all along the way, the CEO would stop, mention somebody, my name, shake their hand.

Thank you. Thank that person for doing a good job. And this company was killing it. The company culture, you know, was supportive of the workers and the workers.

came to work happy and they wanted to contribute and make the company successful.

 

Matt Zaun 

Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. Yeah, the importance of listening tours, just going on tours to listen, not necessarily share information, but get feedback from people so, so important.

Yeah, that absolutely was covered. I do want to talk about after the fact when someone gets involved. Okay, so I've seen this too many times and maybe you've seen the same thing, Terrence, is that, well, first, let me preface by saying, I believe with what I've seen, most people that dive into the political world do it with the right intentions.

Back to your point about different issues and starting from the bottom, a lot of individuals, their heart is in the right spot.

Okay, over time, because of the different structures we have, there tends to be like an inflation of ego, so to speak, where people can get very big heads and they can think of themselves better than other human beings and

And it really creates a situation where it's that person against others. So for someone to stay grounded from a value perspective, what are some values that you'd recommend someone really hold on to through this process as they let's say they do climb the political rung so to speak?

What are some of those values that they should hold on to to make sure that they're not to sing themselves from people?

 

Terence Farrell 

They aren't thinking themselves as a better person than other people. The people that they're representing? Well, obviously humility is one.

And I think one of the ways to stay grounded is to actually do writing, put out your thought processes and your values into public, into the public forum.

Whether it's local newspaper, whether it's your email, news blast, tell people why you got involved at the very beginning.

You know, put that out into the community and. you know, three or four years down the road when you're starting to get that big head, that big ego.

There'll be people that say, well, you said you got involved because you wanted to help people and now you're talking about running for this so that you can make more money, you know?

We're not talking about it, but maybe that's what you're thinking. And another way that's really kept me grounded is that my wife didn't care if I was commissioner or not.

So, you know, I was tear-ins when I came home and it didn't matter who called me commissioner or what I did that day, I still had to take the trash out.

 

Matt Zaun 

That's awesome.

 

Terence Farrell 

So it keeps you grounded, right? It does keep you grounded. And I've talked to other political candidates who, you know, whose wives or whose husbands keep them grounded in fact, that they have known them way back when you were there, you know?

 

Matt Zaun 

And so don't forget that. Sure. You know, one of the things I say often, because I do, I've seen the importance of this, is don't focus.

focus on the word of the values, focus on the stores that exemplify those values, right? A lot of times companies will list out values and here are five company core values.

And it's interesting because a lot of the team members, they don't even remember the values because there's no stickiness to them.

But backing them with a story or a message regarding that value is really important. So as a different point, you had mentioned, you know, every night when you got home, it's trash night, you take out the trash.

There's an element of humility in that. Even though you were running a massive budget, you were spearheading initiatives in one of the most wealthy counties in the United States of America, you took the trash out because there's an element of humility with that, right?

So I think it's really important that people do what you said is get put it out there to the general public saying here are the values that I am going to adhere to and then back it with a message regarding that value.

Why does that value matter to you? And I think it's important to take like not only common values, well, you can say common, like humility is a common value, but now I have that visual of Terrence Farrell took out his own trash regardless of how influential he was, right?

There's a picture that sticks with that value.

 

Terence Farrell 

So I appreciate you mentioning that Terrence. Don't forget the picture of the wife meeting me at the door reminding me to take the trash out.

That is a complete picture. It's not just Terrence Farrell coming home and taking out the trash. Terrence Farrell coming home into his home life, which is different from his political life in part and having a home structure that supports those values that someone there that can remember the stories before you became whoever you are.

I will say that when I was a commissioner and after, soon after, I didn't really know how many people knew my first name was Terrence because everybody greeted me as commissioner.

So, you know, I didn't really know if they actually knew I had a first name given to me by my parents, and not one that I assumed when I became a commissioner in 2008 for this time.

 

Matt Zaun 

You know, that's an interesting, so I'm glad that you mentioned that, because I do think there's a point in there as well is, and not to not, I don't want people to lose sight of this, is that most people, like if we went into different gas stations across the United States and we pulled people aside, a quick poll, and we said, who's the president of the United States?

If we pulled 10 people aside, hopefully the overwhelming majority of those people would be able to answer that question.

What's interesting is if we did the same thing, how many of those 10 people would be able to list out their county commissioners?

I mean, I'd be shocked if it was three out of the 10, just to give people an idea.

 

Terence Farrell 

And beyond that, Matt, one of the questions I got all the time over my 12 years as commissioner was,

What does a county commissioner do? Not just who is a county commissioner, but what does a county commissioner do?

Some people I didn't realize that the county commissioner set the budget for our county taxes. I didn't realize that the commissioners put up, authorize the building of the Justice Center, the courthouse in downtown, I didn't realize that commissioners had an impact on open space.

I didn't realize that the commissioners did this. There are so many people that started our conversation, you mentioned working the road with, well, glad to meet you, Terrence.

What does a county commissioner do?

 

Matt Zaun 

So just to get, you mentioned the budget a few times just to give people an idea. And it doesn't need to be exact, but ballpark figures, how large was the Chester County budget?

 

Terence Farrell 

So the, um, the operating in the capital budget. combined were about a half a billion dollars, 500 million plus dollars.

 

Matt Zaun 

So for everyone listening, think about that, half a billion dollars. So this is not small potatoes. This is an operation that's being led by people that have a profound impact on people's life in many, many different ways.

So I do wanna challenge people, if you've ever wanted to get involved in politics, highly recommend doing what Terrence talked about, which is getting involved at the local level.

So thank you for sharing that, Terrence. I feel like I have a lot of takeaways from our conversation today, and I know that other people took stuff out of this conversation as well.

There's three in particular that are going to be my, kind of walking away from this conversation, what I'm gonna remember.

So I just wanna highlight those before we close. As you mentioned, you starting at the bottom, okay? Kind of working your way up to having that massive impact that you had over the last two decades of your public service.

You also mentioned, You can start with issues as well. So people could either jump in starting at the bottom or they pick an issue that is really need rally cry to get into the political arena.

And I appreciate you mentioning that. The second is the importance of people. I know it sounds simplistic, but just remembering people's names and then taking notes, actually creating a system to document the different conversations and stories that we hear.

I think that's really important. And then the third piece was about putting your values out into the public, just so people can read them.

They can see them. They can understand what you value and then attaching a story or a message to that value, creating, the painting a picture in someone's mind.

And why does that person believe so strongly in humility or integrity, you know, paint the picture regarding it? So those are going to be my three takeaways.

So Terrence, thanks again for your time. I know you're an extremely busy person. So thank you for your time again.

And if someone wants to get a little bit more information on you, they want to connect with you.

 

Terence Farrell 

Where's the best place they can go to do that? The best place is my LinkedIn profile and perhaps you can put it in the comments or someplace near this podcast.

And as you know, Matt, because you were involved in the political arena also, and you have made the transition to business, you know, some of these things you mentioned are you're very familiar with too.

So I appreciate your bringing me on the on the program to speak about the importance of getting involved, you know, in politics to make the community a better place.

 

Matt Zaun 

It doesn't happen without civic engagement. 100%. And I am a huge fan of getting more sane people involved in the political process.

 

Terence Farrell 

So thank you, Terrence. I appreciate your time today.