The Importance of Learning Tours | Stories With Traction Podcast

 

SHOW NOTES:

SUMMARY: In this episode, Kirsten Yurich and Matt Zaun talk about the importance of “learning tours” and how it enhances company culture.

KIRSTEN YURICH BIO: Kirsten went from clinical director at the Vista School to CEO. Due to her leadership, she increased revenue and led her team in innovative ways to serve more people. Today, she is a leader of leaders. As a consultant at the Performance Thinking Network and as a Vistage Chair, she shows CEOs and business owners how to maximize their impact.

For more info, check out Kirsten here:
http://kirstenyurich.com/


MATT ZAUN BIO: Matt is an award-winning speaker and storyteller who empowers organizations to attract more clients through the art of strategic storytelling. Matt’s past engagements have catalyzed radical sales increases for over 300 organizations that range from financial institutions to the health and wellness industry.

Matt shares his expertise in persuasion with executives, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs, who he coaches on the art of influence and how to leverage this for profits and impact.

For more info, check out Matt Zaun HERE. 

 

*Below is an AI-generated transcript, which may contain errors.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Let's talk leadership, but not the glitz and glamour of leadership the behind the scenes the blood Sweat and tears.

Let's talk Correct Today. I'm joined by Kirsten Yurick Kirsten was the clinical director at the Vista school and then she became CEO Due to her leadership.

She not only increased revenue, but she led her team in the innovative way to serve more people Today she's a leader of leaders as a consultant at the performance thinking network and as a vista chair She shows CEOs and business owners had to maximize their impact welcome the show Kirsten

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Thank you, Matt. Happy to be here.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Thank you for your time. I know you're extremely busy and you have done a lot of work with leaders.

You know them down to what's really driving them, the different challenges they have. And I really want to talk about that because I feel like culturally speaking, we have glorified definitely entrepreneurship.

And I think it's a good thing, but I do think it has some drawbacks. I think it's good because I want more people to start businesses.

There's a lot of people that have awesome ideas that they can serve their community. They can offer tremendous value back to their clients.

That's awesome. I do think that's a good thing. But the drawback that I see is people start to get involved in business or maybe they're a manager and they start offering more value to their company.

So they climb that ladder and they find out that it's not as glamorous as they once thought. So I want to talk about that.

So you went from clinical director to CEO. I'm sure it wasn't the easiest journey in your life. So I want to talk about that.

What did you notice from as you were offering more value to an organization, as you were giving back, as you were becoming more and more of a leader, what were some things that you noticed that you might not have thought before you became a leader?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Great points, Matt, and I think many leaders face all of those challenges that you're talking about. I actually went from the most bottom run in the organization to the top run across almost two decades in that organization.

And we don't have enough time for all of those things that I learned, but specifically within leadership, I learned that you never stop learning and that you have to take care of yourself.

There's a reason that you get on the airplane and the first thing they say in the safety check is to put the mask on yourself.

That was one of the biggest lessons that I learned too late in leadership, and it's one of the... first lessons I teach as a coach and a chair and a consultant is about putting on the mask yourself before you can help other people.

Because if we don't take care of ourselves as leaders, we're not going to be showing up in ways that are building healthy companies, healthy cultures, healthy teams, and all of these popular challenges you see out there for businesses like the five graders for talent, the resignation, we shuffle, return, or the quiet quitting, and the quiet firing, all of those things that you see out there are issues that they're coming about because of relationships and those relationships start and end with the leader.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Now, I appreciate you mention that. I find that advice very solid advice, but also fascinating in a sense because a lot of leaders aren't doing that, right?

And then they reap the consequences of that. Can you point out, to an instance, maybe not specifically, but maybe even in general, where a leader was so focused on their work and it ended in peril, maybe it was burnout, maybe it was a nervous breakdown.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Can you point to something? Well, in general, I think that's just exactly what happens as you get leaders that burnout and or they get so caught up and stressed in the tactical issues that are going on, they miss the relationship or the underlying issues that are happening in their companies and they're kind of chasing that fix and they're missing the undercurrent of cost, right?

And so they don't take a step back, they're missing that extra perspective and they'll solve for the wrong problem, right?

And the people will leave, right? So we see a lot of people leaving companies or leading cultures because the leadership is setting a toxic challenge.

or their Deaf too, you know, the culture that has turned, I think a popular example may be what happened at Starbucks, right?

They're looking to unionize because they've lost the culture that they once had. They've brought back their old CEO more than one time, right, to get back to what that you once had.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. That's happened at Disney too. It seems to be a reoccurring theme with Disney's Starbucks.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Yeah, good. Exactly. Exactly.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

So you mentioned something that I feel has been the theme of this year. So I feel like last year it was winning the Talent War.

Every leader across the country, let's, you know, how do we win the Talent War? I think that shifted this year to company culture.

I think every pocket of the US that I go to, the driving force, the number one thing leaders are focused on, at least in my...

experiences, how do we create a vibrant company culture? So I appreciate you mentioning that. What have been some creative ways that you've seen for a leader to figure out how to enhance their culture?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

First, I have to get in touch with what it is. Oftentimes leaders have one view of what the culture is and the rest of the organization has a different view.

And so first, I think leaders need to sort of hypothesis test what they think the culture is. Go out there and do some walk around, do some skip level meetings.

Go out there and find out what people are really saying. I don't think I'm a fan of the undercover boss method.

It probably has some downsides to it, but really get out there and not a listening tour but a learning tour.

How are you connecting with the employees so that you are both seeing them at an authentic level? pick level and being seen.

I think leaders need to be seen a lot more than they need to see. Right? So we had a recent snap who with a leader who was caught on video firing people through what zoom or text or tweet and the feet were up on the desk.

Right? That was the only picture of that leader out of social media. Why was that bad? Because it was the only visible picture of that leader out.

He had no other image to his employees of that image. So that became his image. Leaders can really become subject to that if they're not out being seen and a part of their employees.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Can you, I really like what you said. I want to make sure I'm getting it right. So can you just say that again?

So leaders need to be seen. They don't need to see see as much as they can you.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Can you, can you, yeah, they need both. They need both. I think sometimes. When we're out walking among our employees or visiting or doing skip level meetings, some leaders are afraid to show themselves.

They're afraid to be real. And I think there's a level of that that needs to be opened up. We need to let the moment breathe a little bit more and be real with our employees because you are the tone, the face, the voice right of the company and the recognize that that's something that they like.

They see. They can find value in and they, you know, it's a positive experience versus it being maybe forced or contrived or scheduled, right?

All of those things. That and leader needs to be seen at a very human level. And that might be scary for some leaders, right?

They might have to get used to that.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. Absolutely. I really appreciate you mentioning this. burning tour. And I think it's so important. I don't want people listening to this to miss this.

So I did an episode with a gentleman named Ricardo Gonzalez regarding company culture. We really do have in a company culture and he said something to me that was just.

Shocking but also not surprising at the same time like when he said it, I was like, wow, that is shocking.

But then you think about it. It's like this happens. He said that every time he goes into a room with C suite and he asked.

What is your company culture? Every single one of them has a different version of a company culture is there's no unity and so much of it goes back to the pictures we paint in our minds.

And that's why I'm always harping on storytelling sharing stories that paint the picture for people because the stories that we get out there into the world, especially within our company, they're going to start to see the culture through the different stories we're sharing.

And I think a lot of that goes back to these. turning towards that you're mentioning, getting and talking to as many team members as possible because there's so much so we can learn.

Recently, I was talking with a CEO just fascinating to me. I was actually in this person's building. I was in the lobby, so I met this gentleman and he's taking me back to his office and he's talking to everyone along the way.

It's very brief conversation. So he knew his employees. I was fascinated just with he knew their families and what drove them, what made them tick and I get in his office and I was so fascinated and I said, tell me more about this.

This is incredible. He said, it has been the biggest return on his investment time wise than people can just imagine because he said he actually had a warehouse employee come to him once which shows his leadership, that a warehouse employee can just come in his office and ask him something but mention something happened in the warehouse that was not working.

He ended up stepping in fixing it and it really had an awesome ROI. And that all is that, it's all based on what you're saying.

Be seen learning tour. So let's talk about that a little bit more. What could be some things that a leader can do to start that process?

So if the leader said, all right, that sounds like an awesome idea, I want to start doing these learning tours.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Where would you recommend they start? I would start to find out where employees are gathering in natural, unscheduled places, times, and you might need some Confederates to help you out with this.

If you have multiple locations versus just one big building, find out where people gather. When are the birthday parties or the specific celebrations and just happen to be in the building?

Don't necessarily make a big deal about it, but happen to be in the building and walk by, show up.

Just start being associated with things that are going on. on and people will start to notice that you're around, you're making an effort, you're there, and you're making those personal one-to-one connections.

The story you shared, Matt, is perfect, right? That leader knew their names, their families, something about them. We had a plant tour recently within one of my VISTAGE groups, and that is the exact feedback that the group gave to that CEO.

As he gave his tour, he greeted everybody that we ran into by me, said something positive, thank that person, and we kept going, and it was noticed, right?

That's why that company is doing so well, that's why that individual is just named CEO. That return on that personal investment on people is huge, but it's so often that I talk with folks when they say, well, I don't know how to fit that into my schedule.

I'm too busy doing my quote and it's just this mindset that we have to get leaders into that going out and making those

Staff is actually a main part of your job. Right? Because of this, the pulture piece, you know, leaders bring the weather.

What difference does it make when you walk by somebody and you smile at them, tell them how to have a good day, tell them that they're, you know, doing an awesome job?

How much better of an employee will that person be today and tomorrow because you made that eye contact and you made a point to say something versus head down, walking fast to your office.

Leaders bring the weather and it is such a huge impact.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

That is such an important point, especially regarding the culture piece. And I don't want to say I laugh, but I do find it fascinating when leaders talk about the culture, they can't retain talent, they have a revolving door business.

And the reason why I find it fascinating is my background is politics. I was in the political war for quite some time.

Political speech writer, messaging strategist, and in part. politics, yes, there's a lot of money, but you don't really see the money unless you run a super pack or you're the highest level of the political arena.

And what's fascinating to me is there are staff members that work for politicians. So imagine someone working in a US Senate office.

They make half and sometimes one third of what they would make in a private entity. And they deal with unbelievable amounts of stress.

Why do they stay? They stay because the mission, the vision is so clear in their mind. The culture that that politician has created is so powerful.

They feel connected to that themselves. And that's why when leaders tell me, hey, I can't find good people and we have this revolving door.

We don't have resources to pay our people more on this and that it's where's the vision? Where's the mission?

Is it so powerful? Are they connected to that? What stories is the leader sharing that's creating that? And that all goes back to what you're saying.

The time investment and knowing someone's name, knowing just a little bit about them, it's going to be more of a time saving than people leaving and that person having to hire people or their managers trying to hire people.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Yeah, three to four times.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Yep. And people need to think about that, right?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, but it's easier, I think, to blame that we just we can't have them. We don't get them.

And it's like a churner and it's easier to kind of point to the churn than to look back at the systemic long game of it's our relationships.

It's our investment in the people in here. Do people have the tools and resources? Do they have the skills and talent?

Are they in the right seats? Those are a lot of sort of boxes to be checking that not one will be the fix.

It's all of them that are interconnected. It's just a little bit more of a complex solution. And it's, I think, just easier to say, well, let's get a different talent, you know, outsourced talent company.

Let's, you know, increase our referral bonus. Let's, you know, we're just throwing band-aids on the symptom and not looking at the true cause.

And that's where leaders need to step out of the day to day and get different perspectives and really have their answers questioned by other leaders.

To get there.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

What do you think holds leaders back from allowing their ideas to be questioned?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Some cells.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

And what could be some things that they do to start the process of allowing that to happen?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Get curious. You know, we don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. And I think that goes back to your storytelling.

And, you know, how the leaders get from, okay, I wanna probe I want to solve this challenge. I want to avoid a mistake, right?

These are the issues that they're facing for today. But how do they move to, okay, how am I part of this problem?

How am I part of the issue? It's a big leap. It's sort of a, you know, at the top of Maslow's triangle, right?

I want to get to that very tip of the triangle. That's self-actualization. How do I move from the things that are happening to me that things are happening through me as a leader?

And that's a big leap, and it's not a leap that happens by yourself. It's a leap by being in a community of other leaders that are looking to get there.

And you're not there every day or every moment. We're all different. Our best is different on every day, right?

And so building this community of leadership is, I think, the way that leaders get there. Saying, I'm not going to

get there alone and I'm surrounded by people that work for me and they're not going to be the ones questioning my decisions, right?

So I need to surround myself with other people.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure. Yeah. And as you know, easier said than done, right? I'm sure a lot of people are listening to this thinking, well, that's really tough to allow my ideas to be questioned.

I mean, to get to C suite, I mean, a lot of these individuals are very driven type A, they're go, go, go.

There's definitely ego involved in all of this, right? We need to understand that I would challenge people to gamify this.

I was recently working with a company not too long ago, and they literally gamified this where they allowed someone in every single instance, even if there was 100% buy-in, where everyone was on board, one person needed to stand up and play devil's advocate, one person needed to stand up and tear into the idea.

And the thought was, our competitors aren't going to play nice with us. We might as well figure this out, be curious back to

what you said, be really curious, try to figure out now behind the scenes, what's wrong with this, how will this not deliver for our clients and the way we think it is, let's blow holes to this now, because when it gets out to the marketplace, it's not that's not the time for the criticism to come, we should do this now.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

So I really, yeah, and that helps make it safe for even if you're not in the game scenario, you've created a frame where people can say, hey, let's invoke the game scenario because I have something to say about it, right?

So you've maybe created a frame for people to use when they need to kind of raise their hand and challenge something.

So that's a step towards that psychological safety that's out there in the business world too.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure, yeah, absolutely. I saw a staff, somewhat shifting gears a little bit, I saw a stat not too long ago said 75% of the day is made up of gen actors and millennials, only 25% is made up of baby boomers.

So we're things massive wave of Gen Xers into leadership positions, even older millennials into leadership positions. Have you noticed differences in generations when we talk about those three that people might not be as aware of that might have been surprising to you within baby boom, merge and extra millennials, like what would be a difference within those generations as they go into leadership roles?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

I think the thing that you mentioned earlier with that vision and the ability to know how am I linked to this outcome?

How am I linked to the mission of the company or this project? I think the younger generations, I haven't seen as much with Generation X but certainly millennials and going below that, this link to the purpose and the opportunities for growth seem to be much higher in their motivational categories than in the older generations where, you know, I don't

don't want to be coy, but you're lucky to have a job, work hard, work through it, you know, it's not going to be a good situation, but that won't matter, right?

You just have to push through. I just don't think we have the tolerance for those situations in the younger generations, and they have a lot of choice, and so they're voting with their feet.

And while I think they've gotten a bad rap for those motivational characteristics and those actions, what I think it's done is it has put a spotlight on our management practices, and sunlight is a great disinfectant.

I think it's opened up for us what had been negative and coercive management practices in older generations, command, control, work to escape type of practices.

Now we have to, we have to manage using positive methods. We have to create a vision. We have to create a positive culture.

We have to attract our employees, treat them like volunteers, because they can and that is certainly harder. management, right?

But I think in the long run creates a better team, a better company, and a better community. So if your employee is having a good experience at work, they're going home and they're a better spouse, they're a better parent, and that's better for our community in the world.

And that's really, now you're touching my why, right? My why is that I want to make the world a better place for leadership.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

You've mentioned work anywhere.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

People can literally do that now.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Yeah, through remote work. Have you seen differences with how this has changed culture regarding remote hybrid in person?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Have you seen that with with CEOs that you've coached? Yeah, we've had to be a lot more deliberate around

And how do we build cohesive teams? How do we get in touch and see and be seen to our earlier part of the conversation?

We've had to strategize, right? What does onboarding look like? How do you get people in touch? How do you connect, stay, or more advanced employees with your new employees?

And there's all kinds of strategies out there about, you know, just having on time or work time, you know, putting people in Zoom rooms, but you're just working, you don't have to have a meeting.

So there's lots of what's becoming evidence-based strategies for dealing with these issues, but we just got pushed into it before the methods were out there.

And so the more you play with it, and at least observe is it working or not, and pivot is helpful.

I think that the companies that have said we're all this way and we're all that way, regardless of outcome, those are the ones that are sort of in trouble.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

No, it's a really good point and I want to kind of wrap around to what you said regarding the why because I think it's really important that we talk about the hybrid virtual and then in person as it relates to the why because you mentioned why and if you go deep and deeper and deeper and deeper with the why to really truly find your why a lot of people listening probably are familiar with going multiple layers deep.

I personally like to go five layers deep with my why right so you stay. I want to make more money.

Why I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to do that. You keep driving and driving five layers deep.

That's typically your why. So if the why is powerful enough, if it's strong enough, it really doesn't matter if it's hybrid in person, 100% virtual, if the why is being touched.

I mean, would you agree with that?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Yeah, and that's on your purpose. Obviously there's functional jobs that can and cannot be done. Sure. Yeah, I'm sure.

And you know, we're dealing and are working with different leaders dealing with people who are making money. and factoring people who are delivering services, but people who are answering phones or people who are just thought leaders, that all of that has to be managed.

But the why to your point, you have to answer the question first of can it be done? And then what could be done instead of should be done?

And I think that goes to your point of, we're not coming up with a, we're all gonna be in person because that's what the leader wants.

I think that's more to the point of what you're saying is, why are we making the choice for making of being in person or being hybrid or being remote?

Why can one company hire from all 50 states when one is saying, well, everyone has to be from this particular state because that's where we are.

Well, then you're missing out on all of the town, right? Because you have a personal bias, right?

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Sure, well that goes back. You're your learning tour, right? Because of the lead. It was learning and they were understanding and unpacking these things they would understand that so So kierson, thank you so much for your time.

I really appreciate just everything that you mentioned everything that we unpacked I'm sure a lot of people got a lot out of it.

I have three takeaways that I'm gonna take away from our conversation. I was really Not shocked, but I appreciate you mentioning that we were starting to talk about the higher levels of leadership And you immediately mentioned for the person to take care of themselves And I think people really need that take an honest look Are they really taking care of themselves?

Before they even get any kind of company culture or leadership because if they burn out quickly They're not going to be able to be that leader.

So I very much appreciate you mentioned that right out of the gate I also appreciate when we were talking about culture you mentioned those learning tours You mentioned it is extremely important for leaders to be seen and you even mentioned find

that where team members gather unscheduled, right? So an unscheduled gathering and just be seen. I thought that was really good.

And then for leaders, the third and final thing that I'm going to take away is the curious piece. For leaders to be curious, to allow their team members, to play devil's advocate, to gamify just ideas of, is it going to work?

Is it not going to work? And just to continue to be curious. So I really appreciate everything that you mentioned.

And I really do. And I know that you're extremely busy. So thank you for your time today. If anyone wants to get more information on you, what you do, what's the best place that they can go to get that information?

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Sure. My website is justkirstonuridge.com.

 

Matt Zaun (mattzaun.com)

Perfect. I will include that in the show notes. People can just click and go right there. Thank you again.

I appreciate it.

 

Kirsten Yurich (vistagechair.com)

Great conversation. I appreciate it.